TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 


THE  ROOSEVELT  OF  THE  PREPAREDNESS  CAMPAIGN 


TALKS  WITH 

T.  R. 


FROM  THE  DIARIES  OF 

JOHN  J.  LEARY,  JR. 


With  Illustrations 


BOSTON  AND  NEW  YORK 

HOUGHTON  MIFFLIN  COMPANY 

The  Riverside  Press  Cambridge 
1920 


COPYRIGHT,   1919  AND   1920,    BY  THE   MoCLURE   PUBLICATIONS,   INCORPORATED 
COPYRIGHT,    1920,    BY  JOHN  J.    LEARY,  JR. 

ALL   RIGHTS   RESERVED 


TO 

THE  MEMORY  OF  MY  PARENTS 

JOHN  JOSEPH  AND  MARY  CRONIN  LEARY 

NATIVES  OF  IRELAND,  WHO  LIVED  AND  DIED 

IOO  PER  CENT  AMERICANS 

THIS  LITTLE  BOOK  IS 

AFFECTIONATELY 

DEDICATED 


4.17302 


PREFACE 

RDING  across  Indiana  shortly  before  his  death, 
Colonel  Roosevelt  began  a  brief  discussion  of 
the  manner  in  which  tradition  and  some  historians 
had  treated  Washington  and  Lincoln. 

The  talk  was  predicated  on  Barnard's  statue  of 
the  emancipator,  then  the  subject  of  much  discus 
sion.  The  paper  he  held  in  his  hand  referred  to 
the  controversy  and  he  voiced  annoyance  that  any 
person  could  think  of  portraying  "Lincoln  as  a 

clod." 

" Lincoln  to  me,"  said  he,  "has  always  been  a  liv 
ing  person,  an  inspiration  and  a  help.  I  have  always 
felt  that  if  I  could  do  as  he  would  have  done  were  he 
in  my  place,  I  would  not  be  far  from  right.  And  at 
times  when  I  have  been  troubled  by  some  public 
question,  I  have  tried  to  imagine  Lincoln  in  my  posi 
tion  and  to  do  as  he  would  have  done. 

"I  do  not  understand,"  he  went  on,  "why  some 
persons  like  to  portray  Lincoln  as  rude  and  uncouth 
—  to  suggest  that  he  was  a  lineal  descendant  of  the 
Pithecanthropus,  always  telling  funny  stories.  It  is 
as  bad  as  the  refining  process  Washington  has  gone 


viii  PREFACE 

through.  Washington  was  a  very  human  sort  of  per 
son  with  a  fair  share  of  the  weakness  of  man.  He  is 
presented  to  us  as  possessing  all  of  the  virtues  and 
lacking  all  suggestion  of  sin,  original  and  acquired. 
As  a  matter  of  fact,  he  was  a  strong  man,  with  all 
of  a  strong  man's  virtues  and  many  of  a  strong  man's 
faults,  who  lived  in  an  age  when  it  was  not  bad  form 
to  offer  the  minister  a  drink. 

"Lincoln  was  not  a  handsome  man  —  he  did  not 
have  very  much  on  me  in  that  respect  —  but  he  was 
by  no  means  first  cousin  to  the  cave  man  in  appear 
ance  any  more  than  he  was  always  slapping  stran 
gers  on  the  back  and  telling  them  funny  stories.  He 
did  have  the  saving  grace  of  humor,  but  he  was  no 
clown. 

"  In  my  office  in  the  White  House  there  was  a  splen 
did  portrait  of  Lincoln.  Ofttimes,  when  I  had  some 
matter  to  decide,  something  involved  and  difficult 
to  dispose  of,  where  there  were  conflicting  rights 
and  all  that  sort  of  thing,  I  would  look  up  at  that 
splendid  face  and  try  to  imagine  him  in  my  place 
and  try  to  figure  out  what  he  would  do  in  the  cir 
cumstances. 

"It  may  sound  odd  to  you,  but,  frankly,  it  seemed 
to  make  my  troubles  easier  of  solution.  Yes,  to  me, 
Lincoln  has  ever  been  a  living  person,  an  inspiration 
and  a  help.  If  I  ever  envied  any  man,  it  was  John 


PREFACE  ix 

Hay,  who  had  the  wonderful  privilege  of  knowing 
Lincoln  so  intimately. 

"Lincoln  must  be  —  will  be  always  —  a  living 
thing  to  our  people,  an  inspiration  and  a  landmark, 
to  the  living  and  to  those  yet  to  live.  Our  danger  lies 
in  the  fact  that  at  times  our  public  men  are  inclined 
to  stray  from  the  path  he  blazed,  if,  indeed,  some  of 
them  ever  trod  it." 

It  had  been  my  habit  to  transcribe  carefully  in  my 
notebooks  these  informal  talks  with  the  Colonel.  Un 
til  this  little  talk,  through  which  ran  a  note  almost 
wistful  and  that  all  but  expressed  the  hope  that  he, 
in  turn,  would  not  be  caricatured  or  whitewashed, 
my  idea  as  to  what  I  would  do  with  them  was  vague. 
Eventually,  I  half  thought,  the  notebooks  and  their 
contents  might  find  a  resting-place,  perhaps,  in  Har 
vard  College  Library,  where  in  after  years  the  stu 
dent,  seeking  material  for  theme  or  thesis,  might  find 
something  of  value. 

After  Colonel  Roosevelt's  death  a  year  ago,  in  the 
days  that  followed,  my  thoughts  recurred  to  that 
day  in  the  Pullman  diner  riding  across  Indiana.  It 
then  became  clear  that,  instead  of  trusting  to  chance 
and  the  years  that  these  talks  might  be  given  the 
public  after  the  Roosevelt  tradition  had  become 
fixed,  the  time  is  now  while  the  tradition  is  in  a  state 
of  flux. 


x  PREFACE 

Hence  this  little  book,  offered  to  the  public  in  the 
hope  that  it  will  help  those  who  were  not  privileged 
above  their  fellows  in  knowing  him  in  the  flesh,  to 
visualize  and  know  the  real  Theodore  Roosevelt. 

JOHN  J.  LEARY,  JR. 

NEW  YORK  CITY 

January  i,  1920 


CONTENTS 

ROOSEVELT  AND  1920  i 

DEWEY  AND  FIGHTING  BOB  n 

WHY  ALGER  ESCAPED  CRITICISM  15 

THE  CHARLEY  THOMPSON  CLUB  16 

How  I  LOST  MY  EYE  19 

THE  DRINK  STORY  22 

THE  BREAK  WITH  TAFT  25 

THE  ATTEMPT  ON  HIS  LIFE  30 

WHY  Two  POLITICIANS  FAILED  32 

CLASHES  WITH  THE  KAISER  40 

THAT  GARY  DINNER  45 

•  THE  COLONEL  AND  JUDGE  HUGHES  52 
His  A  SIMPLE  CREED  65 
His  HOLD  ON  THE  PUBLIC  70 
THAT  GOLDEN  SPECIAL  75 
ON  ELECTION  EVE,  1916  76 
PERKINS  AND  T.  R.  79 
A  CABINET  THAT  NEVER  WAS  86 
SENATOR  LODGE'S  FIST  FIGHT  88 

•  ROOSEVELT'S  ONE  TALK  WITH  MR.  WILSON  93 
" THE  DIVISION"  IOQ 
THE  COLONEL  AND  JOHN  L.  SULLIVAN  118 
THE  NEWSPAPER  CABINET  123 
CHILDREN  OF  THE  CRUCIBLE  143 
ROOSEVELT  ON  LABOR  151 
"ONE  PURPLE  NIGHT"  160 
DEVIL-FISHING  166 
A  VARIED  READING  DIET  173 
' '  TRYING  TO  KILL  ME  "  175 


xii  CONTENTS 

LOYALTY  177 

GERMANS  IN  AMERICA  180 

PLAYING  THE  GAME  194 

MAKING  UP  WITH  TAFT  198 

MONEY-GRUBBERS  206 

NEW  BLOOD  IN  THE  G.  O.  P.  210 

SPEED  ON  THE  TRIGGER  214 

ROOT,  MOST  VALUED  OF  COUNSELLORS  217 

WITH  THE  ALLIES'  ENVOYS  222 

POLICE  AND  CITIZENSHIP  226 

COLONEL  ROOSEVELT  ON  BOYS  233 

His  BOYS'  CRITICS  239 

OUR  SOLDIER  DEAD  IN  FRANCE  246 

MAKING  PEACE  WITH  GOMPERS  251 

HENRY  FORD  AND  MARK  HANNA  256 

A  TRIBUTE  TO  NURSES  259 

WOMAN  IN  OFFICE  263 

THE  NEW  YORK  FIGHT  OF  1918  267 

HOME  FOLK  270 

THE  VALUE  OF  MASONRY  275 

HITTING  THE  BACK  TRAIL  278 

ON  HEREDITY  280 

ON  REMEMBERING  FRIEND  AND  FOE  283 

"  WELL-MEANING  FOOLS  "  287 

ON  COLLEGE  LIFE  289 

ON  PROHIBITION  291 

PERSHING  AND  WOOD  296 

FONDNESS  FOR  THE  KHAKI  LAD  3°° 

ON  BEING  SIXTY  3°4 

THE  COLONEL  AND  THE  TREATY  3°7 

ENGLAND  AND  THE  REST  OF  THE  WORLD  311 

MR.  WILSON'S  " IDEALS"  323 


ILLUSTRATIONS 

THE  ROOSEVELT  OF  THE  PREPAREDNESS  CAMPAIGN 

Frontispiece 

A  Chicago  snapshot.  Friends  of  Roosevelt  have  called  this 
the  best  picture  of  him  taken  in  the  closing  years  of  his  life. 

FACSIMILE  OF  A  LETTER  OF  ROOSEVELT'S  RECOMMENDING 
THE  AUTHOR  TO  THE  MILITARY  INTELLIGENCE  SEC 
TION,  U.S.A.  i 
A  WEIGHTY  MATTER                                                          36 
IN  THE  SUPREME  COURT  AT  SYRACUSE                               60 
EN  ROUTE  FOR  THE  TROPICS                                                88 
PROMINENT  MEMBERS  OF  THE  "NEWSPAPER  CABINET"   124 
Photograph  taken  at  Sagamore  Hill,  June,  1916,  showing 
Charles  Divine,  New  York  Sun;  Rodney  Bean,  New  York 
Times;  Edward  Moier,  Associated  Press;  John  W.  Slaght, 
New  York  World;  Napoleon  A.  Jennings,  New  York  Herald; 
William  Hoster,  New  York  American. 

Of  these,  Jennings  was  associated  with  the  Colonel  from  his 
days  in  the  Assembly,  while  Slaght  dated  from  the  Police  Com 
mission  days.  The  latter  has  an  interesting  explanation  as  to  how 
the  Colonel  and  his  Rough  Riders  came  to  receive  the  news 
paper  attention  they  got  in  the  Spanish  War. 

"While  the  army  was  assembling  in  Tampa,  he  says,  we  all 
sent  reams  of  stuff  to  our  papers,  telling  of  the  arrival  of  troops, 
the  generals,  and  all  that  sort  of  thing.  When  the  papers  arrived 
back  we  found  the  blue  pencil  of  the  censor  had  deleted  about 
everything  except  the  date  lines.  In  this  emergency  a  conter- 
ence  was  called.  It  had  degenerated  into  a  lodge  of  sorrow,  when 
Jimmy  Hare,  the  war  photographer,  who  was  sitting  on  a  table 
swinging  his  legs,  had  a  happy  thought.  m 

" '  You  are  up  against  it  and  you  might  as  well  realize  it  now  as 
any  other  time.  I  know  censors.  If  you  want  copy,  why  don  t 
you  take  up  this  Roosevelt  outfit?  He's  a  New  Yorker,  he  s  got 
a  picturesque  crowd  that  will  make  good  copy,  and  the  censor 
will  let  you  go  as  far  as  you  like.' 

"It  was  a  life-saver.  That  night  the  wires  were  loaded  with 
Rough  Rider  copy.  Thus,  by  a  strange  kink  of  fate,  regular  army 
officers,  who  have  always  protested  against  the  prominence 
given  Roosevelt  in  the  war,  were  themselves  directly  responsible 
for  that  prominence."  —  J.  J.  L.,  Jr. 


xiv  ILLUSTRATIONS 

SCIENTISTS  AT  WORK  AND  ON  PARADE:  COLONEL  ROOSE 
VELT  AND  DR.  RUSSELL  J.  COLES  DRESSED  FOR  DEVIL- 
FISHING  AND  IN  ACADEMIC  GOWNS  168 
By  courtesy  of  Dr.  Russell  J.  Coles 

IN  BARBADOS  200 

THE  COLONEL  AND  HIS  SON  KERMIT  234 

COLONEL    ROOSEVELT   AND    DR.    MASON    EXAMINING 

SHRAPNEL  WHICH  WOUNDED  ARCHIE  ROOSEVELT  244 

WITH  HIS  SECRETARY,  WILLIAM  LOEB,   JR.,   ON  THE 
MAYFLOWER  AT  A  NAVAL  REVIEW  264 

Photograph  by  N.  W.  Penfield,  New  York. 

"Billy,"  as  the  Colonel  called  him,  filled  a  very  large  place 
in  the  Roosevelt  term  in  the  White  House.  In  after  years  this 
intimacy  continued,  Colonel  Roosevelt  placing  large  value  on  his 
judgment  of  men  and  things  and  his  unselfish  loyalty. — J.  J.  L.f  Jr. 

IN  UTAH  292 

THINKING  IT  OVER  324 

Except  as  otherwise  indicated,  the  illustrations,  including  the 
frontispiece,  are  from  photographs  supplied  by  the  Sun  and 
New  York  Herald. 


TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 


[  FACSIMILE  ] 
SAGAMORE    HILL. 


/«     *  /    ^  / 


f 


/ 


TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

ROOSEVELT  AND  1920 

A.L  that  is  near  to  me  in  the  male  line  is  in 
France.  If  they  do  not  come  back,  what  is  the 
Presidency  to  me? 

"  If  they  do  come  back,  and  the  Republican  Party 
wants  me,  and  I  can  see  where,  by  accepting  the 
nomination,  I  can  advance  the  ideals  for  which  I 
stand,  I  will  be  a  candidate.  But  I  will  not  lift  my 
finger  to  secure  the  nomination/' 

That  was  Colonel  Theodore  Roosevelt's  position 
as  expressed  to  me  in  June  of  1918,  when  it  began  to 
appear  that  nothing  could  prevent  his  nomination. 
It  was  his  position  in  December,  when,  convales 
cing  from  rheumatism,  he  talked  politics  with  me 
in  Roosevelt  Hospital.  I  had  remarked  that  it  had 
begun  to  look  as  though  he  would  be  nominated  by 
acclamation. 

"That  may  be,"  said  he,  "  but  if  I  am,  I  will  ac 
cept  only  because  I  see  where  as  President  I  can  do 
things,  can  advance  those  ideals  for  which  all  right- 
thinking  Americans  stand.  And  if  I  accept,  it  will  be 
because  the  platform  is  one  hundred  per  cent  Ameri- 


!*';•;  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

can.  Nothing  less  would  induce  me  to  consider  the 
nomination  for  a  single  minute. 

"To  be  President  is  an  honorable  and  commend 
able  ambition  in  any  man.  I  have  been  President. 
Per  se  it  would  mean  nothing  to  me  to  be  President 
again.  Its  only  value  would  be  in  what  I  could  do, 
what  I  could  accomplish." 

This  was  substantially  his  position  in  1916  when, 
it  will  be  remembered,  the  issue  at  the  Republican 
Convention  in  Chicago  was  Roosevelt  or  Hughes, 
and  the  Republican  Convention  deadlocked  with  the 
Progressives  on  this  point;  a  deadlock  broken  by 
Colonel  Roosevelt's  declination  to  run  as  a  Progres 
sive  and  his  declaration  that  he  believed  it  his  duty 
and  the  duty  of  all  Americans,  who  felt  as  he  did, 
to  support  Justice  Hughes. 

With  Judge  Hughes's  nomination,  Colonel  Roose 
velt  abandoned,  temporarily  at  least,  any  thought 
of  again  running  for  the  Presidency.  Two  days  before 
the  decision  of  the  voters  for  Mr.  Wilson  over  Mr. 
Hughes,  my  notebook  says,  he  declared  he  would  be 
out  of  it  in  four  years. 

"We  can,"  I  remarked,  after  he  had  bemoaned 
the  probable  reelection  of  Mr.  Wilson,  "look  forward 
to  1920.  There  will  be  nothing  to  it  then  but  Roose 
velt.  No  one  can  stop  it." 

"You  are  wrong  there,"  he  answered.  "This  was 


ROOSEVELT  AND  1920  3 

my  year  —  1916  was  my  high  twelve.  In  four  years 
I  will  be  out  of  it.  This  was  my  year  to  run.  I  did  not 
want  to  run  in  1912.  Circumstances  compelled  me 
to  run  then.  This  year  it  was  different.  This  was  my 
year.1' 

"Colonel,"  said  I,  "I  know  that  many  things  may 
happen  in  four  years,  but  I  also  know  that  every 
where  I  go  it  is  the  one  thing:  'If  they  had  only 
named  Roosevelt. '" 

"True,"  he  countered,  "but  don't  you  see  that 
you  are  merely  proving  what  I  say  —  this  was  my 
year  to  run.  I  have  no  doubt  the  mass  of  the  people 
wanted  me  to  run.  The  gang  did  not.  To  beat  me 
they  had  to  take  Hughes  —  they  hated  him  only  in 
a  lesser  degree  than  they  hated  me." 

Following  the  defeat  of  Judge  Hughes  he  made  no 
effort  toward  securing  the  1920  nomination,  for  him 
self  or  any  other  man.  His  efforts  were  directed  first, 
last,  and  all  of  the  time  to  bringing  the  Republican 
Party  and  its  leaders  around  to  what  he  believed  to 
be  the  real  American  ideals  and  needs  of  the  hour, 
and  to  make  the  party  the  instrument  through 
which  the  real  will  of  the  American  people  might  be 
registered  and  the  ancient  landmarks  defended. 

If,  in  doing  this,  the  party  should  nominate  him, 
well  and  good.  If  the  nomination  went  to  another, 
well  and  good,  provided  that  other  was  one  hun- 


4  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

dred  per  cent  American  and  dependable  in  his 
Americanism. 

"  It  was,"  he  said  to  me  early  in  1916,  "  the  neces 
sity  of  saving  the  Union  that  called  the  Republican 
Party  into  being.  It  accomplished  that  purpose,  and 
for  many  years  governed  the  country  wisely  and 
well.  Then  it  became  fat,  and  soft,  and  lazy.  It  ceased 
to  be  the  party  of  all  of  the  people  and  it  has  been 
punished  for  its  sins. 

"  Now  another  crisis  is  at  hand.  The  danger  to  our 
institutions  is  as  great  to-day  as  it  was  in  1861.  Then 
we  faced  disunion.  Now  we  face  disgrace  and  worse. 
The  party  now  in  power  is  the  same  party  the  people, 
acting  through  the  Republican  Party,  hurled  from 
power  in  1860.  It  is  as  unfit  to  govern  this  country 
now  as  it  was  then;  it  is  just  as  sectional  and  it  is 
fully  as  inefficient.  The  only  difference  is  this:  in 
1860  the  country  was  facing  war  and  the  Democrats 
deliberately  and  criminally  did  their  best  to  so 
arrange  matters  that  it  would  not  be  ready  for  war, 
while  now,  with  the  country  facing  war,  it  is  doing 
nothing  to  prepare  for  war. 

"In  the  one  case  it  was  criminal  intent,  in  the 
other  it  is  congenital  inefficiency;  in  one  instance 
they  were  crooked,  in  the  present  case  they  are 
foolish.  The  results  to  the  country  will  be  the  same. 

"The  Democratic  Party  cannot  wreck  the  coun- 


ROOSEVELT  AND  1920  5 

try,  but  it  can  do  damage  that  a  generation  won't  be 
able  to  repair.  Under  Mr.  Wilson's  leadership  it  is 
backing  us  into  war  stern  foremost.  There  are  men 
in  his  party  that  see  the  danger,  that  feel  as  we  do, 
but  they  are  helpless.  There  is  no  hope  for  the 
country  in  that  party. 

"If,  when  we  finally  get  into  the  war,  formally 
and  officially  as  we  now  are  unofficially,  and  the 
Democratic  Party  happens  to  be  in  power,  it  will  be 
just  as  inefficient  in  war  as  it  is  in  peace. 

"The  hope  of  the  country  is  in  the  Republican 
Party.  Through  it  the  mass  of  the  people  will  have 
to  work,  will  express  their  real  opinions. 

"The  mass  of  the  people  are  all  right.  Just  now 
they  are  suffering  from  a  false  sense  of  security  into 
which  they  have  been  lulled  by  sweet  words  and 
beautiful  phrases.  They  will  be,  they  must  be  awak 
ened.  And  when  they  are  awake  they  must  turn  to 
the  Republican  Party  for  leadership,  for  there  is  none 
in  the  other  party.  They  will  turn  to  it  when  they 
realize  the  needs  of  real  preparedness  and  the  plight 
they  face  through  false  leadership. 

"For  that  reason,  and  that  reason  only,  I  am 
interested  in  party  politics.  I  would  not  give  a  snap 
of  my  finger  for  the  nomination.  I  would  take  the 
nomination  only  because  of  the  chance  to  do  things, 
were  I  again  President,  that  must  be  done." 


6  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

With  this  background  it  is  easy  to  see  why,  fol 
lowing  the  defeat  of  Justice  Hughes  in  1916  he  began 
a  campaign  to  bring  all  wings  of  the  Republican 
Party  together. 

This  campaign  began  the  last  Saturday  of  the 
1916  campaign.  It  began  in  Bridgeport  where  the 
Colonel  closed  his  speaking  tour,  with  a  whole 
hearted  appeal  for  the  election  of  Mr.  Hughes. 
Incidentally  it  is  worth  noting  here  that  it  was 
Bridgeport's  big  vote  (Bridgeport  is  the  chief  city 
of  Fairfield  County)  which  saved  Connecticut  to 
the  Republicans  and  made  California's  vote  so  all- 
important. 

After  this  meeting  Colonel  Roosevelt  went  to  the 
Stratfield  Hotel  where  John  T.  King,  the  Republican 
National  Committeeman,  had  a  light  supper  waiting. 
King  had  been  anti-Roosevelt,  but  had  come  around 
to  Mr.  Roosevelt's  way  of  thinking,  and  between 
bites  of  supper  the  two  talked  organization. 

"I  am  not  against  the  organization  and  never 
have  been  against  it  because  it  was  a  party  organi 
zation,"  he  declared,  "but  I  have  been  against  it 
because  it  was  an  organization  for  private  plunder. 
That  is  what  I  am  against. 

"You  have  the  right  idea  here  —  taking  the 
working-men  into  the  organization  and  making  it  a 
popular  institution  in  which  the  idea  of  social  justice 


ROOSEVELT  AND  1920  7 

for  all  is  uppermost.  It  is  a  splendid  idea,  that  of 
insisting  that  the  man  who  takes  a  place  in  the 
organization  must  quit  drinking  and  start  a  savings- 
bank  account. 

"  I  want  to  see  that  sort  of  an  organization  every 
where  —  an  organization  where  the  workers  and  the 
small  farmers  sit  in  and  really  belong.  That  sort  of 
an  organization  will  not  stand  for  plunder.  It  will 
stand  for  what  is  right  and  decent  in  public  life. 
You  can  call  such  an  organization  a  machine  if  you 
will  and  I  '11  still  approve  of  it.  Calling  it  a  machine 
will  not  make  it  offensive  to  me.  A  machine  is  just 
as  necessary  for  successful  party  work,  for  a  party 
to  serve  the  public,  as  organization  is  in  the  army 
or  in  a  bank. 

"I  have  no  quarrel  with  any  man  who  has  been 
in  the  organization  for  what  he  has  done  in  the  past 
if  he's  straight  now.  There  are  a  good  many  things 
everybody  sees  are  improper  now  that  only  a  few 
thought  were  improper  a  short  time  back.  It's  like 
the  lottery  —  Harvard  College  and  many  of  your 
old  churches  about  here  were  financed  by  lotteries 
in  the  old  days.  Times  have  changed. 

"If  the  organization  is  straight,  runs  straight,  if 
its  leaders  and  the  men  in  it  run  straight,  I  have  no 
objection  to  it.  I  will  work  with  it  just  so  long  as  it  is 
straight  and  I  won't  worry  over  the  possibility  that 


8  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

some  of  its  members  have  not  always  held  as  high 
views  as  they  do  now." 

"Well,"  laughed  King,  "that  would  let  Barnes 


in." 


" By  Godfrey! "  exclaimed  the  Colonel,  "  I  '11  work 
even  with  Barnes  if  he 's  working  for  the  public  good. 
Yes,  I  '11  even  take  Barnes  in  when  he  is  ready  to  run 
straight  and  so  long  as  he  is  working  for  the  party 
and  the  people,  and  not  for  Barnes." 

"If  we  had  known  you  as  well  before  Chicago  as 
we  do  now,"  remarked  King,  "Connecticut  would 
have  been  in  a  different  position  there." 

The  Colonel  laughed,  asked  more  questions  about 
King's  methods  which  had  made  Bridgeport  a  ban 
ner  Republican  city,  and  the  local  situation  gener 
ally. 

"I  like  King,"  he  told  me  afterwards.  "He  has 
the  right  idea  of  organization  —  clean  men,  close  to 
the  people,  with  the  working-men  well  up  to  the 
front  and  in  front  if  they  have  the  ability  to  get 
there.  Organizations  like  that  won't  go  wrong." 

This  conversation  not  long  after  resulted  by  Mr. 
King  becoming  the  closest  of  Colonel  Roosevelt's 
political  advisers.  Through  King  he  worked  for  the 
reorganization  of  the  Republican  National  Commit 
tee  which  made  Will  H.  Hays,  of  Indiana,  National 
Chairman.  King  was  his  choice  for  that  place,  but 


ROOSEVELT  AND  1920  9 

when  on  the  eve  of  the  St.  Louis  meeting  of  Febru 
ary,  1918,  at  which  Hays  was  chosen,  it  became 
evident  King  would  have  to  fight  for  the  place,  the 
Colonel  advised  him  to  keep  out. 

"The  place  is  not  worth  a  fight, "  he  advised,  "  es 
pecially  where  there  is  so  much  at  stake." 

This  was  his  last  political  act  before  the  serious 
operations  which  brought  him  to  the  doors  of  death 
that  winter.  He  was  semi-convalescent  when  he  was 
told  of  Hays's  election  and  insisted  on  wiring  him 
immediately.  He  saw  Hays  before  he  was  out  of  bed 
and  he  was  much  impressed  with  him. 

"Hays/*  he  told  me  before  leaving  the  hospital, 
"is  a  trump.  He  is  all  right.  He  may  make  mistakes, 
but  he  won't  make  many.  The  party  seems  to  be 
united  on  him  and  that's  something  well  worth 
while.  Now  we  Ve  got  to  back  him  up.  With  Hays  at 
work  and  on  the  job,  I  think  we'll  get  results.  For 
one  thing,  there's  only  one  party  now.  Most  of  the 
Progressives  have  come  back.  Most  of  the  others 
will  follow.  Those  that  won't  return  would  sooner  or 
later  have  quit  even  the  Progressive  Party  —  they  're 
just  natural-born  Mavericks  who  won't  stay  long  in 
any  herd,  and  won't  stay  branded. 

"Hays  will,  I'm  sure,  weld  the  party  firmly  to 
gether.  The  day  of  factions  has  gone.  But  we  have 
all  got  to  help  him." 


io  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

Colonel  Roosevelt's  desire  to  help  sent  him  to 
Maine  a  few  weeks  after  he  left  the  hospital  to  ad 
dress  the  state  convention.  He  had  bullied  his  doc 
tors  into  a  reluctant  consent,  had  a  "bully  time," 
and  came  back  confident  the  trip  was  worth  while. 

"It  looks  more  and  more  like  Roosevelt  in  1920," 
I  told  him  on  his  return. 

"I'm  not  so  sure  about  that,"  said  he.  "I  don't 
know  that  Roosevelt  will  care  to  be  a  candidate  in 
1920.  He  certainly  will  not  be  if  he  has  to  scramble 
for  it,  and  he  won't  take  the  nomination  if  it 's  handed 
him  on  a  silver  platter,  unless  he  sees  where  by 
accepting  he  can  be  of  real  service,  can  do  real  things. 

"Otherwise  —  you  couldn't  drag  me  into  an 
acceptance." 

"I  don't  believe  you'll  have  to  scramble  for  it; 
there  will  be  a  chance  to  do  things  and  there  won't 
be  any  doubt  as  to  the  platform  —  all  of  your  con 
ditions  will  be  met,"  I  replied. 

"In  that  case,"  he  replied,  "I'll  have  to  run,  but 
remember  this:  almost  anything  can  happen  between 
now  and  1920." 


DEWEY  AND  FIGHTING  BOB 

TWO  of  the  brightest  chapters  in  America's 
brilliant  naval  history  deal  with  Dewey  in 
Manila  Bay  and  the  battleship  cruise  around  the 
world.  For  Dewey 's  presence  in  Manila  Bay,  Roose 
velt  was  responsible  —  he  had,  in  fact,  as  Assistant 
Secretary  of  the  Navy,  to  battle  with  bureau  chiefs 
to  send  him  there  —  thereby  breaking  precedent 
much  as  he  did  later  in  sending  Rear  Admiral 
" Fighting  Bob"  Evans  on  the  famous  battleship 
cruise. 

Dewey  he  sent  to  Asia  on  the  chance  that  he  would 
have  to  fight,  and  Evans,  prepared  to  fight,  left  with 
President  Roosevelt  his  pledge  that  were  there  a  fight 
he  would  come  home  as  Dewey  did — or  not  at  all. 

There  has  been  much  mystery  and  some  dispute 
as  to  the  orders  under  which  Evans  sailed.  What  his 
written  orders  may  have  been  I  do  not  know.  But 
here  is  Colonel  Roosevelt's  story  of  his  last  interview 
with  Evans  before  "he  shoved  off"  on  that  memo 
rable  voyage. 

"I  said  to  Evans,"  said  Colonel  Roosevelt  in  dis 
cussing  the  matter,  " '  Admiral,  I  am  very  fond  of 
you,  but  if  you  or  your  ships  are  surprised  in  port 
or  at  sea,  don't  come  back  to  me. 


12  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

" '  You  are  going  on  a  mission  of  peace,  to  see  that 
the  peace  is  kept,  but  from  the  time  that  you  lift 
anchor  in  the  roads  until  you  return,  guard  your 
ships  as  though  you  were  at  war. 

"  'Seek  no  trouble;  take  no  chances;  don't  be  sur 
prised/ 

"  Evans  stood  looking  me  straight  in  the  eye  while 
I  was  talking. 

"'Mr.  President/  said  he,  'Mr.  President,  if  I  am 
surprised,  I  won't  come  back/ 

"And  I  don't  believe  he  would  have. 

"The  situation  was  serious  and  Evans  knew  it 
nearly  if  not  quite  as  well  as  I.  There  was  one  chance 
in  ten  that  the  trip  would  end  in  war.  I  decided  to 
take  the  nine  chances  that  it  would  prevent  the  war 
that  seemed  certain,  was  certain,  if  strong  measures 
were  not  taken  to  prevent  it. 

"I  was  talking  softly  to  Japan  and,  in  the  fleet, 
was  letting  it  see  my  big  stick. 

"Evans  was  the  man  to  handle  the  fleet.  He  was 
worth  a  couple  of  battleships  both  for  the  moral 
effect  on  his  men  and  the  knowledge  of  the  rest  of 
the  world  that  he  was  not  called  '  Fighting  Bob '  for 
nothing.  I  knew  that  he  did  not  want  to  fight  —  your 
first-class  fighting  man  never  looks  for  fight  —  I 
knew  that  he  could  be  depended  upon  not  to  pick  a 
fight,  but,  by  George!  I  knew,  and  Japan  knew,  that 


DEWEY  AND  FIGHTING  BOB  13 

if  occasion  demanded  he  could  fight  and  would 
fight. 

"Can  you  imagine  Mr.  Wilson  taking  such  a 
course?" 

Of  Dewey  as  a  fighting  man  Colonel  Roosevelt 
had  the  very  highest  regard,  but  he  also  realized  that 
like  most  other  mortals,  Dewey  had  his  limitations. 

"As  a  fighting  man,  as  a  man  on  the  bridge  or  in 
the  conning  tower,  Dewey  had  no  superior/'  he  once 
told  me.  "He  was  everything  the  traditions  demand 
an  American  sailor-man  shall  be.  But  take  him  off 
his  quarter-deck  and  set  him  in  a  swivel  chair  and  he 
was  lost  —  he  was  only  slightly  better  than  Crown- 
inshield. 

"  Crowninshield,  you  know,  did  not  wish  Dewey 
sent  to  command  the  Asiatic  squadron.  He  insisted 
that  it  was  not  Dewey's  turn  —  that  some  one  else 
should  go,  because,  in  the  course  of  ordinary  routine, 
the  other  man  should  go.  I  knew  what  Dewey  was 
—  a  fighting  man  of  the  Farragut  type  and  just  as 
capable  as  his  old  commander  of  saying,  '  Damn  the 
torpedoes,  full  speed  ahead/  He  proved  it  by  cutting 
the  cable  after  he  had  done  his  main  job. 

"It  was  because  I  believed  he  was  the  right  man 
for  the  job  that  I  sent  him  to  the  East  over  the 
bureau's  protest,  and  it  was  because  I  knew  he  was 
a  first-class  man  in  a  fight  that  I  sent  him  to  South- 


i4  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

ern  waters  when  it  looked  as  though  we  might  have 
to  mix  it  up  with  Germany  a  few  years  later.  When 
Germany  realized  that  I  meant  business,  she  quit, 
but  if  she  had  nTt,  Dewey  would  have  given  as  good 
an  account  of  himself  there  as  he  had  in  Manila  Bay. 

"  Between  ourselves,  the  old  man  was  rather  keen 
for  the  chance  at  Germany.  He  recognized,  as  did 
few  men  of  his  time,  what  Germany  and  German 
policies  really  were  and  what  Germany  meant  to  try 
and  do  to  the  world. 

"On  the  other  hand,  I  saw  his  limitations  when  a 
dispute  arose  between  him  and  General  Wood  as  to 
the  place  where  fortifications  should  be  built  to 
defend  Manila.  Wood  objected  that  the  place  fa 
vored  by  the  navy,  and,  of  course,  by  Dewey,  could 
not  be  defended  by  the  army.  I  sent  for  the  admiral 
and  put  the  thing  up  to  him.  He  listened,  shrugged 
his  shoulders,  and,  in  effect  asked,  'What  of  it?* 

"So  long  as  it  could  be  defended  by  the  navy  and 
fitted  in  with  the  navy's  scheme  of  things,  he  did  not 
care.  He  lacked  the  necessary  breadth,  the  necessary 
imagination  to  size  the  entire  problem  —  to  get  the 
other  fellow's  viewpoint. 

"  However,  as  things  developed,  both  were  wrong, 
for  the  Japs  before  long  had  guns  that  would  have 
made  the  place  picked  by  the  army  untenable." 


WHY  ALGER  ESCAPED  CRITICISM 

STUDENTS  of  Spanish  War  history  may  recall 
that  however  much  Colonel  Roosevelt  may  have 
criticized  other  War  Department  officials  at  that 
time,  General  Russell  A.  Alger,  then  Secretary  of 
War,  was  one  of  those  who  escaped.  There  was  a 
reason  for  this  —  the  T.  R.  policy  of  a  lifetime  of 
sticking,  wherever  it  was  humanly  possible,  to  a 
friend. 

"Some  persons  may  have  wondered,"  he  remarked 
one  day,  "why  it  was  I  never  criticized  General 
Alger.  The  explanation  is  simple:  whenever  I  found 
myself  up  against  some  foolish  bureau  chief  whose 
love  for  red  tape  would  block  me  in  fitting  out  my 
regiment,  I  'd  go  to  Alger  and  he  'd  give  me  what  I 
wanted.  Thus,  I  wanted  modern  rifles  using  smoke 
less  powder.  The  then  chief  of  ordnance  advised  that 
I  take  the  old-fashioned  Springfield  using  black 
powder.  He  said  the  smoke  would  hide  us  from  the 
enemy. 

"  I  could  not  convince  him  this  was  bad  judgment, 
so  I  went  to  Alger.  He  fixed  us  up  immediately.  That 
is  why  you  never  heard  of  my  saying  anything 
against  the  old  General. 

"Anyway,  others  said  quite  enough." 


THE  CHARLEY  THOMPSON  CLUB 

SO  far  as  I  know,  Colonel  Roosevelt  never  in 
dulged  in  cards.  He  did  not,  however,  object  to 
others  doing  so.  "I  am  not  bigoted  in  the  matter" 
was  his  way  of  putting  it.  One  of  his  standing  jokes 
had  to  do  with  the  proneness  of  some  of  his  news 
paper  friends  to  "kill"  a  little  time  playing  poker. 

Frequently  a  local  committeeman  boarding  the 
Colonel's  train  before  his  city  was  reached,  would, 
after  the  social  amenities  had  been  attended  to,  ask 
where  the  newspaper  men  were,  or  for  some  indi 
vidual  correspondent. 

"I  do  not  know,"  the  Colonel  would  say,  "but  I 
suspect  they  are  attending  a  meeting  of  the  Charley 
Thompson  Finger  Club." 

"And  what  is  that?"  the  committeeman  would 
ask. 

"It  is,"  the  Colonel  would  answer,  "a  very  exclu 
sive  organization  devoted  to  the  study  of  financial 
problems,  psychology,  and  the  relative  and  varying 
values  of  certain  pieces  of  paper.  In  a  word,  it  is  a 
poker  club.  At  least  they  say  they  play  poker.  Some 
say  they  only  play  at  poker. 

"  It  had  its  start  in  this  way.  On  one  of  my  trips 
some  years  ago,  Charley  Thompson,  of  the  Times 


THE  CHARLEY  THOMPSON  CLUB      17 

(New  York),  cut  a  finger  rather  badly  opening  a 
bottle  of  mucilage.  That  evening  after  dinner  the 
boys  sat  around  talking  over  the  events  of  the  day. 
After  a  while  one  arose,  stretched  himself,  and  said 
he  guessed  he  'd  go  back  to  see  how  Charley  Thomp 
son's  finger  was  getting  along.  Soon  another,  then 
another,  went  back  to  see  about  Thompson's  finger, 
until  I  was  left  alone.  By  this  time  I  had  become  a 
bit  sympathetic  and  decided  that  I,  too,  should  look 
in  on  the  invalid. 

"They  were  all  there  playing  poker  —  Charley 
Thompson  included.  Thereafter  when  the  boys  all 
disappeared  and  remained  quiet  for  any  consider 
able  period,  I  always  felt  it  safe  to  assume  the 
Charley  Thompson  Finger  Club  was  in  session, 
though  its  founder  might  be  hundreds  of  miles 
away." 

Sometimes  the  Colonel  would  look  in  on  a  "  meet 
ing"  to  joke  the  boys  about  their  progress  or  to 
extend  mock  sympathy  to  the  stranger  they  might 
have  taken  in.  There  was  no  rule  as  to  the  size  of 
the  game,  nothing  approaching  a  dictum  from  the 
Colonel  as  to  what  the  limit  should  or  should  not  be, 
but  it  was  always  small.  For  this,  there  was  a  reason. 
Instinctively  the  boys  knew  that  the  Colonel  would 
not  like  to  hear  of  a  large  limit  game — of  anything 
approaching  real  gambling  by  any  of  his  party.  So 


1 8  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

they  refrained  from  high  play  just  as  they  refrained 
from  carrying  liquor  with  them. 

Once,  I  believe,  some  one,  more  venturesome,  or 
less  well  acquainted  with  the  Colonel  than  the  rest, 
did  arrange  for  a  liberal  stock  of  stimulants  being 
placed  aboard  the  train.  The  Colonel  did  not  say 
very  much.  That  little,  I  believe,  he  said  to  one  man. 
The  balance  of  the  trip  was  "  dry  "  so  far  as  the  train, 
at  least,  was  concerned. 

The  Colonel  would  not  quarrel  with  or  attempt  to 
say  to  any  of  his  party  that  he  should  not  take  a 
drink  if  he  felt  so  inclined,  or  pack  a  flask  in  his  lug 
gage,  but  he  did  object  to  anything  that  by  twist 
of  the  imagination  might  be  considered  a  drinking 
orgy  or  the  making  of  one.  It  was  not  his  idea  of  the 
thing  to  do. 


HOW  I  LOST  MY  EYE 

I  DID  not  realize  it  was  news  until  I  saw  the  papers 
yesterday.  I  rather  supposed  most  people  knew 
I  had  lost  the  sight  of  one  eye." 

Colonel  Roosevelt  was  a  bit  amazed  and  somewhat 
puzzled  by  the  prominence  given  this  fact  one  Mon 
day  morning  after  he  had  talked  with  a  group  of 
reporters  at  Jack  Cooper's  health  farm,  near  Stam 
ford,  Connecticut,  where  he  had  gone  to  take  off 
some  surplus  weight.  The  reporters  he  had  bidden 
there  more,  I  am  sure,  to  do  something  for  his  friend 
Cooper  by  securing  him  a  lot  of  publicity  than  any 
thing  else,  though  he  had,  as  a  matter  of  fact,  half 
promised  that  he  would  have  something  to  say  be 
fore  leaving  the  place  when  he  went  there. 

"You  knew  it,  did  you  not?"  he  asked. 

"Yes,  sir,"  I  answered;  "you  told  me  about  it  one 
night  on  a  train  going  West.  Yoder  (of  the  U.  P.) 
and  Reggie  Post  were  in  the  party." 

"I  thought  so,"  said  he. 

My  notebook  tells  me  that  his  story  as  to  how  he 
lost  the  use  of  the  left  eye  was  led  up  to  by  a  question 
of  the  Colonel's  as  to  a  rumor  about  his  being  in  poor 
health  then  going  the  rounds. 

"What  do  they  say  I  have?"  he  inquired. 


20  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

' '  Arterio-sclerosis. ' ' 

"Just  what  is  that?" 

"A  hardening  of  the  walls  of  the  arteries  —  a  loss 
of  elasticity  in  the  blood  vessels." 

"Well,  on  that  definition  they  are  right.  I  have 
had  arterio-sclerosis  for  a  long  time.  Ever  since  I 
was  about  forty,  I  have  had  to  cut  out  violent  exer 
cises  one  after  the  other  until  now  there  is  nothing 
left  except  what  a  grandfather  might  expect. 

"When  I  was  Governor  it  was  delightful  to  note 
the  refusal  of  the  Comptroller  to  audit  a  bill  for  a 
wrestling  mat  for  the  Executive  Mansion.  He  could 
understand  perfectly  why  a  gentleman  should  wish 
a  billiard  table,  but  a  wrestling  mat  for  a  Governor! 
It  was  inconceivable. 

"I  did  not  wrestle  so  much  after  that.  My  first 
man,  a  middle-weight  champion,  knew  enough  to 
take  care  of  himself  and  me,  too.  I  forget  his  name. 
He  had  to  quit  and  his  successor  was  an  oarsman 
who  could  neither  look  out  for  himself  nor  for  me. 
The  result  was  that  one  bout  ended  with  the  smash 
ing  of  one  of  his  knees  and  I  had  a  loose  rib  or  two. 

"I  used  to  like  to  box,  but  I  had  to  stop  when  I 
hurt  my  left  eye  in  the  White  House.  You  know  it  is 
blind;  a  loss,  but  not  nearly  as  bad  as  if  it  were  the 
right  one.  It  happened  this  way:  I  was  boxing  with 
a  naval  officer,  a  husky  chap  and  a  cousin  of  Mrs. 


HOW  I  LOST  MY  EYE  21 

Roosevelt.  He  countered  a  hot  one  on  the  side  of  the 
head  —  right  over  the  eye.  One  of  the  hardening 
arteries  ruptured.  Then  the  eye  gradually  began  to 
film  over.  Soon  all  the  sight  was  gone.  That's  how  I 
lost  it. 

"So  far  as  I  know  the  officer  never  learned  the 
result  of  his  blow.  To  have  told  him  would  have  only 
caused  him  to  feel  badly. " 

After  the  publicity  following  his  statement  at 
Jack  Cooper's,  Colonel  Roosevelt  again  referred  to 
the  fact  that  he  had  kept  the  extent  of  his  injury 
secret  from  his  boxing  partner. 

"The  only  man  I  ever  tried  to  keep  that  story 
away  from  was  the  young  officer.  It  would  have 
worried  him  to  death. 

"By  the  way,"  he  added,  with  a  laugh,  "did  you 
notice  how  quickly  it  is  announced  that  Mr.  Wilson, 
too,  has  but  one  eye.  Of  course,  he  did  not  lose  it  in 
any  such  vulgar  way  as  boxing;  that  would  never  do. 
He  had  to  lose  his  in  the  more  ladylike  and  refined 
bookworm  way  —  too  much  reading." 


THE  DRINK  STORY 

FEW  things  in  Colonel  Roosevelt's  later  life  are 
fresher  in  the  public  memory  than  his  suit 
against  a  Michigan  editor  who  accused  him  of  drunk 
enness.  The  unfortunate  editor,  unable  to  produce 
a  scintilla  of  proof,  admitted  his  fault,  and  so  far  as 
the  records  go,  the  matter  was  disposed  of.  There 
was  nothing  developed,  however,  to  show  where  the 
tale  started  or  what  foundation,  if  any,  it  might  have 
had. 

Colonel  Roosevelt  had  an  explanation.  He  gave 
it  to  us  one  afternoon  in  the  trophy  room  in  Oyster 
Bay,  when  passing  the  cigars  around,  he  remarked 
that  he  would  vouch  for  the  quality.  "They  must  be 
good,"  he  remarked,  "for  they're  some  of  Leonard 
Wood's.  I  never  smoke  myself,  so  I  have  to  rely  on 
the  judgment  of  others. " 

"Did  you  ever  smoke?"  some  one  asked. 

' '  There  is  where  that  story  of  my  drinking  started , ' ' 
he  continued,  not  hearing  the  question  or  ignoring  it. 

"You  see,  when  I  would  decline  a  cigar,  saying  I 
did  not  smoke,  folks  would  often  ask,  in  a  joking 
way,  'What  are  your  bad  habits? '  In  the  same  spirit 
I  would  reply,  l Prize  fighting  and  strong  drink.' 

"Now  it  so  happens  that  the  Lord  in  His  infinite 


THE  DRINK  STORY  23 

wisdom  elected  to  create  some  persons  with  whom  it 
is  never  safe  to  joke  —  solemn  asses  who  lack  a  sense 
of  humor.  I  am  very  fond  of  that  story  of  Sidney 
Smith's,  who,  playing  with  his  children,  stopped  sud 
denly,  saying,  '  Children,  we  must  now  be  serious  — 
here  comes  a  fool/  You  know  the  kind  he  meant  — 
those  poor  unfortunates  who  must  take  everything 
said  to  them  literally. 

"One  of  these  to  whom  I  made  that  remark  said, 
'Roosevelt,  I  hear,  drinks  hard/  The  other  fool  re 
plied,  'Yes,  that's  true.  He  told  me  so  himself.' 

''And  so  the  story  went  on  its  travels. 

"That  is  all  there  ever  was  to  the  talk  of  my  drink 
ing.  From  that  start,  it  spread  and  spread  until,  in 
self-defence,  I  was  compelled  to  take  action  to  stop 
it.  Some  folks  have  said  I  went  out  of  my  way  to  find 
a  little  editor  of  small  means  and  few  sources  of  evi 
dence  who  could  not  well  defend  himself.  The  fact 
is,  he  was  the  one  editor  I  could  hold  to  account. 
There  were  and  are  editors  nearer  New  York  I  gladly 
would  have  sued  under  like  circumstances,  but  they 
knew  better  than  to  print  what  they  knew  was  un 
true.  Had  any  of  them  done  so,  I  would  have  hauled 
them  up  short,  and  with  much  more  glee  than  I  did 
the  Michigan  man,  for  the  men  I  have  in  mind  have 
real  malice  toward  me,  and  he,  I  am  satisfied,  had 
none. 


24  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

"  We  parted  good  friends.  I  certainly  had  nothing 
against  him.  In  his  zeal  to  do  things,  he  put  in  print 
what  shrewder  and  really  malicious  men  who  would 
harm  me  if  they  could,  dare  not  print.  I  believe  he 
was  honestly  sorry  when  he  found  his  error. 

"However,  the  thing  had  its  value.  We're  never 
too  old  to  learn  and  I  learned  to  be  careful  with 
whom  I  cracked  the  simplest  joke.  Thank  God,  there 
are  many  you  can  joke  with  in  safety.  If  we  could  n't 
laugh  once  in  a  while,  what  a  world  this  would  be! 
It  would  n't  be  a  world  —  it  would  be  a  madhouse." 


THE  BREAK  WITH  TAFT 

THERE  never  has  been  any  formal  explanation 
as  to  what  caused  the  break  between  Colonel 
Roosevelt  and  Judge  William  H.  Taft.  Here  is 
Colonel  Roosevelt's  explanation,  made,  my  note 
book  tells  me,  at  Sagamore  Hill,  April  8, 1916.  It  was 
made  in  the  course  of  a  discussion  as  to  the  possibil 
ity  of  a  reconciliation  which  some  mutual  friends  had 
taken  upon  themselves  to  try  to  arrange. 

At  the  time,  the  Colonel  did  not  venture  an  opin 
ion  as  to  whether  they  would  get  together,  but  he 
did  seem  anxious  to  make  it  clear  that,  whatever 
he  may  have  thought  about  Taft's  backers  in  1912, 
he  had  no  real  feeling  against  Taft  personally. 

"The  break  in  our  relations,"  said  he,  "was  due  to 
no  one  thing,  but  to  the  cumulative  effect  of  many 
things  —  the  abandonment  of  everything  my  Ad 
ministration  had  stood  for,  and  other  things. 

"Taft  changed  greatly  between  the  time  he  was 
elected  and  the  time  he  took  office. 

"The  first  friction  came  in  the  matter  of  his  Cab 
inet.  When  he  was  nominated  I  went  to  him  and 
asked  whom  he  wished  to  have  take  his  place  as 
Secretary  of  War.  I  told  him  I  considered  it  as  much 
his  appointment  as  mine,  and  that  I  would  appoint 


26  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

no  one  not  acceptable  to  him,  though  I  had  a  good 
man  in  mind.  I  told  him  the  man  was  Luke  E. 
Wright. 

"He  said  Wright  was  absolutely  the  man  he  would 
have  chosen  himself.  Wright,  he  recalled,  had  been 
with  him  in  the  Philippines  and  was  the  man  for  the 
place. 

"After  he  was  elected  he  came  to  me  and  told  me 
he  wished  to  retain  my  Cabinet  and  would  like  to 
have  me  tell  the  members  so.  I  realized  at  once  that 
this  was  a  rather  delicate  matter,  believing  he  might 
and  probably  would  change  his  mind  later;  that  his 
wishes  in  November  might  not  be  his  wishes  in 
March;  and  I  asked  him  if  he  really  desired  the  mes 
sage  delivered. 

"'How  about  Cortelyou?'  I  asked.  'Do  you  want 
him?  You  know  he  thought  he  was  your  rival.' 

"He  allowed  this  was  so,  and  that  he  would  not 
want  Cortelyou. 

"'How  about  Bonaparte?1  I  asked.  'You  know 
you  do  not  think  much  of  him  as  a  lawyer/ 

"He  agreed  that  he  would  wish  another  in  the 
place,  but  he  insisted  that  he  wanted  the  others  to 
stay,  and  on  his  definite  insistence  I  delivered  the 
message.  More  than  that,  those  thus  assured  thanked 
Taft  for  the  offer  in  my  presence. 

"Wright  was  among  those  so  assured;  in  fact,  the 


THE  BREAK  WITH  TAFT  27 

assurance  that  he  was  the  joint  choice  of  myself 
and  Taft  was,  he  said,  the  impelling  reason  for  his 
acceptance  of  the  place  when  I  offered  it  to  him. 

"By  inauguration  time,  however,  Mr.  Taft  had 
changed  his  mind,  just  as  I  had  feared  he  would,  and 
it  made  a  great  deal  of  feeling.  Some  had  made  very 
definite  plans  on  the  strength  of  his  offer,  renewing 
leases  of  houses  and  that  sort  of  thing,  and  it  was 
bad  all  around. 

"  That  was  the  first  bit  of  friction  —  the  beginning. 

"In  office,  his  militancy  evaporated  and  he  at 
once  set  about  undoing  all  my  Administration  had 
done.  Conservation  went  by  the  board,  Newell  of 
the  Reclamation  Service  had  to  quit,  and  things  went 
from  bad  to  worse.  They  had  reached  such  a  pass 
that,  when  I  got  to  Rome  on  my  way  home  from 
Africa,  I  found  Gifford  Pinchot  awaiting  me.  He 
wanted  me  to  attack  Taft  then  and  there.  Others 
were  in  the  same  mood. 

"But  I  said,  'No/  we  should  do  nothing  of  the 
sort.  I  wanted  to  do  nothing  to  injure  Mr.  Taft  or 
his  Administration. 

"Thus  things  went,  one  thing  after  another,  until 
finally  the  Rural  Welfare  Commission,  one  of  the 
best  things  we  had,  was  abandoned.  That  was  the 
last  straw.  The  break  came  on  that,  but  it  was  not 
because  of  that.  It  was  because  of  the  many  things 


28  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

of  which  that  was  the  capstone,  the  climax.  By  the 
way,  the  Government  never  even  printed  the  report 
of  that  Commission.  We  finally  had  it  done  at  the 
expense  of  the  Seattle  Chamber  of  Commerce. 

"  There  you  have  the  real  story  of  our  break. 

"Of  course  there  were  other  things.  We  had  a 
perfectly  good  treaty  with  Japan,  under  which  we 
had  the  right  to  pass  exclusion  laws.  Japan  asked 
that  we  not  do  so,  offering  to  make  a  gentlemen's 
agreement  to  keep  her  folks  at  home  if  we  would  not 
pass  such  a  law.  The  agreement  was  made  and  kept, 
but  we  had  the  right  to  enforce  exclusion  under  the 
treaty  if  Japan  did  not  keep  her  promise.  Mr.  Taft, 
however,  went  to  work  and  made  a  new  treaty,  in 
which  that  right  to  exclude  was  waived,  we  relying 
on  their  gentlemen's  agreement,  which  they  may  or 
may  not  live  up  to,  as  circumstances  may  seem  best 
to  them. 

"That  was  a  mistake,  and  how  California  ever  let 
that  treaty  go  through  is  beyond  me.  Now,  as  mat 
ters  stand,  Japan  can  do  as  she  pleases.  The  part  of 
wisdom  was  to  have  retained  that  provision  of  the 
old  treaty  as  a  club. 

"Then  there  was  messing  about  with  treaties 
guaranteeing  the  peace  of  Latin  America  by  which 
we  committed  ourselves  to  raise  an  army  of  at  least 
300,000  men  when  just  now  we  are  showing  we  can- 


THE  BREAK  WITH  TAFT  29 

not  raise  an  army  large  enough  to  take  care  of 
Mexico. 

"All  in  all,  you  can  see  there  were  many  differ 
ences,  none  in  itself  serious  enough  to  cause  any 
break  in  our  cordial  relations,  but  taken  together, 
very  serious. 

"I  never  regretted  anything  more  in  my  life.  I 
have  never  questioned  Taft's  honesty  in  any  or  all 
of  the  things  I  have  mentioned.  Some  were  mistakes, 
such  as  the  Cabinet  matters.  In  other  things  he  was 
very  much  imposed  upon.  When  Taft  led  me  to 
believe  he  was  going  to  come  out  for  the  policies 
agreed  upon,  he  honestly  intended  to  do  so.  His 
militancy  just  evaporated. " 


THE  ATTEMPT  ON  HIS  LIFE 

THE  fellow  who  shot  me  was  cracked,  and  the 
doctors  found  him  to  be  insane,  so  they  put 
him  into  an  insane  asylum  for  the  balance  of  his  days. 
It  was  the  best  way  to  dispose  of  his  case." 

Colonel  Roosevelt  was  speaking  of  the  attempt 
made  on  his  life  in  Milwaukee  during  the  campaign 
of  1912. 

"The  man  was  cracked.  He  had  been  interested 
in  a  saloon  that  was  in  trouble  while  I  was  Police 
Commissioner,  and,  brooding  on  the  thing,  his  poor 
brain  gave  away  altogether. 

"I  had  no  special  reason  for  thinking  that  I  was 
in  danger  during  that  campaign,  certainly  much  less 
than  I  had  in  the  time  I  was  in  the  White  House  or 
at  other  times  since.  Of  course,  when  I  was  in  the 
White  House  a  rather  careful  watch  was  kept  upon 
those  who  might  wish  to  destroy  me,  and  persons 
approaching  me  too  closely  were  scrutinized,  but  I 
was  never  very  much  worried  about  that  sort  of 
thing  or  gave  it  much  thought. 

"  More  to  save  the  nerves  of  the  secret  service  men 
and  some  of  my  friends  than  anything  else,  I  tried 
to  be  as  little  careless  as  I  could  consistent  with  a 
reasonable  degree  of  freedom  of  action,  but  I  was 


THE  ATTEMPT  ON  HIS  LIFE          31 

something  of  a  fatalist  in  the  thing,  and  I  realized 
that  however  careful  a  man  might  be,  there  was 
bound  to  be  some  risk  at  all  times.  I  have,  I  believe, 
been  in  more  danger  from  friendly  crowds  that 
seemed  anxious  to  crush  me  to  death  in  their  wel 
come,  and  to  committees  that  would  kill  me  with 
indigestion  and  overwork,  than  from  anarchists  or 
other  cranks. 

"I  was  in  the  automobile  when  this  fellow  shot 
me;  he  reached  over  the  edge  like,  and  the  next  thing 
I  knew  was  a  flash  and  a  fearful  blow.  It  seemed  as 
though  I  had  been  hit  with  a  sledgehammer.  I  went 
through  with  my  engagement  to  speak,  as  you  know, 
but  it  was  somewhat  difficult.  Otherwise,  you  know, 
members  of  my  family  and  my  friends  would  be 
frightened  half  to  death.  After  the  shooting  my  side 
was  as  black  as  your  hat. 

"The  bullet,  you  know,  was  never  removed.  It 
passed  through  a  rib  and  through  the  outer  case  of 
the  lungs.  It  was  thought  best  not  to  try  and  remove 
it  as  it  did  not  seem  to  be  doing  any  damage.  This 
dry  bronchitis  I  have  been  known  to  suffer  from,  I 
believe,  may  be  a  result  of  that  wound." 


WHY  TWO  POLITICIANS  FAILED 

TO  those  resident  away  from  New  York,  as  well 
as  to  many  resident  within,  the  defeat  of 
Mayor  John  Purroy  Mitchel  for  reelection  and  the 
failure  of  Governor  Charles  S.  Whitman  to  make  a 
better  showing  than  he  did,  are  mysteries. 

There  are  those  who  cite  both  failures  as  proof 
that  New  York  City,  at  least,  does  not  want  good 
government,  for  Whitman,  like  Mitchel,  was  beaten 
by  New  York  City  votes. 

Colonel  Roosevelt  held  no  such  opinion.  To  him 
Mitchel  failed  because  he  got  out  of  touch  with  the 
public,  while  Whitman,  he  declared,  might  well  have 
been  President  had  he  attended  strictly  to  the  busi 
ness  of  being  Governor  of  the  State  of  New  York. 
Whitman  was  no  prime  favorite  of  his,  but  he  be 
lieved  Whitman  might  easily  have  duplicated  Cleve 
land's  feat  in  jumping  from  the  Executive  Mansion 
in  Albany  to  the  White  House  had  he  not  been  badly 
stung  by  the  presidential  bee  early  in  his  term  of 
office. 

"If,"  said  the  Colonel,  as  I  was  leaving  Oyster 
Bay  for  the  Chicago  Convention  of  1916,  "Whitman 
had  had  the  sense  just  to  have  been  Governor  of 
New  York  these  two  years,  it  would  n't  be  a  question 


WHY  TWO  POLITICIANS  FAILED      33 

of  Hughes  or  Roosevelt  in  Chicago.  It  would  have 
been  Whitman. 

"Just  think  of  the  chance  he  had!  Elected  Gover 
nor  of  the  State  of  New  York  on  a  highly  moral  issue 
by  an  enormous  majority,  with  a  legislature  friendly 
and  the  people  sympathetic ;  all  he  had  to  do  was  be 
Governor  of  New  York,  a  real  Governor,  and  make 
his  administration  stick  out  just  as  Arthur  Woods 
has  stood  out  as  a  Police  Commissioner,  and  the 
nomination  would  have  been  his  without  the  asking. 
He  had  every  chance,  and  more,  that  Cleveland  had. 

"But  it  was  not  in  him  to  think  of  these  things. 
He  had  his  eyes  on  the  Presidency  from  the  moment 
he  was  elected;  he  has  not  made  the  record  he  could 
have  made  by  attending  strictly  to  the  job  in  hand, 
and  he  has  lost  the  Presidency.  It  is  too  bad/* 

Colonel  Roosevelt  went  into  the  Mitchel  campaign 
with  no  delusions  as  to  the  probable  result.  There 
was,  however,  a  chance  that  Tammany  might  lose, 
and  he  felt  that  no  hope  of  beating  Tammany  was 
too  forlorn  to  be  abandoned.  To  him  duty  spelled 
a  drive  at  Tammany  whenever  the  opportunity 
offered. 

Mayor  Mitchel's  failure,  the  Colonel  believed,  was 
due  entirely  to  his  getting  out  of  step  with  the 
electorate. 

"There  is,"  he  went  on  to  say,  "no  doubt  that 


34  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

Mitchel  has  on  the  whole  given  New  York  the  best 
administration  the  city  has  ever  had.  There  is  every 
reason  why  his  administration  should  be  continued. 
Another  four  years  and  Tammany  will  be  starved  to 
death.  If  Tammany  gets  back  now,  it  means  another 
lease  of  life  for  it. 

"Furthermore,  the  weaknesses  of  Mitchel  as 
Mayor  are  temperamental  rather  than  otherwise. 
He  has  been  a  good  Mayor  and  the  work  now  begun 
should  be  carried  on.  To  elect  Hylan  or  any  other 
man  with  the  Tammany  tag  on  him  is  to  give  the 
cause  of  good  government  in  America  a  decided  set 
back." 

"Yet,"  said  I,  "he  has  made  his  election  impos 
sible  by  his  arrogance  and,  what  you  have  noted, 
his  being  out  of  touch  with  the  man  in  the  street. 
Almost  anything  may  develop  in  the  campaign. 
Personally  I  feel  sure  it  will  develop  into  quite  the 
dirtiest  mud-slinging  affair  we  have  known  in  years. 
For  that  reason,  and  the  additional  fact  that  I  do 
not  like  to  see  you  identified  with  a  loser,  I  am  sorry 
you  are  in  it.  You  cannot  hope  to  win." 

"Being  with  a  loser,  so  long  as  what  the  loser 
stands  for  is  right,  has  no  terrors  for  me,"  he  re 
plied. 

"The  weakness  of  Mitchel  and  his  fight  is  that  he 
has  failed  utterly  to  keep  in  touch  with  the  people. 


WHY  TWO  POLITICIANS  FAILED      35 

Three  years  ago,  after  Mitchel  had  been  in  office 
nearly  a  year,  I  told  him  he  was  in  danger  of  making 
his  a  *  swallowtail1  administration;  that  he  was  put 
ting  too  many  men  into  office  the  people  did  not 
know,  and  some  that  they  knew  and  did  not  like. 

"  I  told  him  he  would  do  well  to  put  some  man  into 
responsible  office  who  was  really  in  touch  with  the 
best  in  the  labor  unions;  that  an  occasional  appoint 
ment  of  a  clean-cut  young  Irishman  would  be  wise, 
warning  him  at  the  same  time  that  he  was  surround 
ing  himself  with  men  not  in  touch  with  the  people 
and  who  would  surely  isolate  him  from  the  masses. 

"  It  was  not  enough,  I  told  him,  to  give  the  people 
a  good  administration  —  he  must  not  give  the  people 
the  impression  that  he  was  not  one  of  them,  that  he 
was  a  man  aloof. 

"  Again,  a  year  later,  I  told  him  he  would  be  wise 
if  he  took  an  occasional  night  away  from  Fifth 
Avenue  and  went  east  two  or  three  blocks  and  got 
acquainted,  say,  with  Second  Avenue,  and  that  he 
might  with  pleasure  and  profit  hire  a  chauffeur  who 
knew  the  way  to  Brooklyn.  He  would,  I  told  him, 
have  a  lot  of  fun  at  a  ball  in,  say,  the  Third  Assem 
bly  District;  a  better  time,  perhaps,  than  he  ever  had 
in  Fifth  Avenue,  find  the  girls  just  as  good  if  not 
better  dancers,  and  be  a  better  Mayor  for  having 
the  fun.  But  he  did  not  see  things  that  way. 


3  6  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

"The  worst  things  that  this  fellow  Hearst  is  say 
ing  against  him,  that  he  is  a  little  brother  of  the  rich, 
a  sycophant  at  rich  men's  tables,  a  social  climber, 
is  due  chiefly  to  himself.  His  constant  appearance 
in  the  papers  as  being  at  this,  that,  or  the  other 
week-end  party  has  lent  foundation  and  color  for 
these  things. 

"No  man  seriously  questions  John  Mitchel's  hon 
esty.  But  many  do  insist  that  instead  of  buying  his 
influence  with  cash,  the  so-called  interests  secure  it 
with  invitations  to  tea  or  dinner.  In  the  public  mind 
he  is,  I  'm  sorry  to  say,  a  social  climber.  He  has  only 
himself  to  blame  for  this. 

"He  made  a  fearful  tactical  blunder  when  the 
Vanderbilt  car  was  in  an  accident  and  he  insisted 
upon  the  chauffeur  of  the  other  car  being  arrested. 
If  it  had  been  his  own  or  John  Smith's  car  that  he 
was  in  at  the  time  of  the  accident,  that  might  have 
been  the  correct  course  to  have  taken,  but  the 
Vanderbilt  car  —  never. 

"He  has  blundered,  too,  in  his  very  efficiency. 
The  so-called  Gary  School  System  has  become  a  lia 
bility,  where,  properly  handled,  it  would  have  been 
an  enormous  asset. 

"I  believe  it  really  solves  the  part-time,  school 
problem., That  is  a  problem  of  the  tenements,  of  the 
immigrants  very  largely.  Naturally  it  is  so  —  they 


A  WEIGHTY  MATTER 


WHY  TWO  POLITICIANS  FAILED      37 

have  the  large  families,  there  are  more  of  them,  they 
live  in  the  crowded  sections. 

"You  and  I  know  the  psychology  of  the  immi 
grant,  of  the  man  who  works  with  his  hands.  With 
them,  education  for  their  children  is  almost  an  obses 
sion.  The  Irishman  wants  a  priest  in  the  family,  or  a 
lawyer;  the  Jew,  a  student,  a  doctor,  or  a  rabbi,  and 
so  on.  It's  understandable  and  commendable.  They 
want  their  children  to  be  better  off  than  they  have 
been.  Lacking  much  of  the  higher  education,  they 
appraise  it  at  a  better  value  than  many  of  us  who 
have  it. 

11  If  Mr.  Mitchel  had  gone  to  them  when  this  plan 
was  decided  upon,  shown  them  where  it  would  give 
their  children  more  and  better  education,  they  would 
have  been  with  him  —  they  'd  have  called  him 
blessed.  That  would  have  been  more  than  a  politic 
thing  to  do  —  it  would  have  been  the  decent  thing 
to  do;  for,  after  all's  said  and  done,  the  parent  has 
the  right  to  be  consulted  on  anything  so  vital  as  his 
child's  schooling. 

"Instead,  having  agreed  that  the  doctors  had 
fixed  up  medicine  that  would  be  good  for  the  school 
patient,  he  decided  to  let  the  doctors  jam  it  down 
the  patient's  throat,  whether  the  patient  liked  it  or 
not. 

"It's  too  late  now,  but  we  cannot  blame  the 


3  8  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

parents  of  the  ninety  thousand  children  on  half- 
time  if  they  are  offended,  or  if  they  resent  what  has 
been  made  (and  by  one  of  the  Gary  School  defenders) 
to  appear  as  an  effort  to  keep  their  children  in  the 
places  of  hewers  of  wood  and  carriers  of  water. 

"No  man  in  public  office,  in  justice  to  himself,  his 
office,  and  the  public,  can  allow  the  impression  to 
gain  ground  among  the  people  that  he  is  no  longer 
one  of  themselves,  that  he  is  a  man  apart." 

Later,  while  he  was  recuperating  at  Cooper's  place 
in  Stamford,  having  made  the  speeches  for  Mitchel 
that  he  had  promised  to  make,  Mr.  Mitchel  went  to 
him  to  ask  for  more  aid.  Mitchel  then  felt  that  he 
was  down,  as  a  remark  made  while  waiting  to  see  the 
Colonel  indicated. 

"We  are  reflecting  you,  Mr.  Mayor/'  Miss  Zoe 
Beckley  had  declared  in  answer  to  his  question  as  to 
what  she  was  doing  there. 

"That,"  said  the  Mayor,  "is  more  than  I  seem  to 
be  able  to  do  myself." 

After  he  had  talked  with  Mitchel,  Colonel  Roose 
velt  said  he  had  agreed  to  make  "half  a  dozen  more 
speeches." 

"They  have  put  it  up  to  me  pretty  hard,"  he  said, 
"and  I  do  not  see  but  that  it  is  up  to  me  to  do  what 
I  can.  The  campaign,  however,  is  being  fearfully 
mismanaged.  The  cry,  'A  vote  against  me  is  a  vote 


WHY  TWO  POLITICIANS  FAILED      39 

for  the  Kaiser/  is  a  mistake.  It  is  unfair  and  it  will 
react. 

"If  Mitchel  could  be  made  to  see  it  his  only  hope 
is  to  stand  on  his  record  and  challenge  Hylan  to  say 
what  reforms  he  will  undo.  He  should  stand  pat  on 
Arthur  Woods's  record  in  the  police  department  and 
ask  Hylan  if  he  will  bring  the  red  lights  back,  the 
old  days  of  Devery  and  police  corruption  and  all 
these  involve. 

"He  has  a  dozen  such  chances  if  he  will  only  use 
them." 

Later  the  Colonel,  who  really  was  very  fond  of 
Mitchel  personally,  expressed  regret  at  the  position 
in  which  defeat  would  probably  leave  him. 

"If,"  said  he,  "this  young  man  is  defeated  —  and 
it  looks  as  though  he  will  be  —  he  personally  will  be 
in  a  most  unfortunate  plight.  He  will  have  to  start 
fresh  with  the  handicap  of  having  been  Mayor  and 
he  will  then  find  that  his  society  friends  will  have 
very  little  use  for  him.  They  will,  beyond  the  shadow 
of  a  doubt,  drop  him,  and  he  will  realize  then,  what 
he  does  not  realize  now,  that  it  is  the  Mayor  of  New 
York  to  whom  these  attentions  have  been  paid  and 
not  to  Purroy  Mitchel. 

"The  great  weakness  of  Mitchel  as  Mayor  is  that 
he  has  had  no  popular  appeal  —  he  has  not  gripped 
the  imagination  of  the  masses." 


CLASHES  WITH  THE  KAISER 

IT  is  not  generally  known  that  on  at  least  three 
occasions  —  twice  before  the  Great  War  and 
once  since  —  Colonel  Roosevelt  and  the  Kaiser 
clashed.  The  Venezuela  incident  is  more  or  less 
widely  known,  largely  through  Mr.  Thayer's  excel 
lent  book.  But  the  clash  of  wills  at  the  time  of 
Colonel  Roosevelt's  visit  to  Berlin,  and  his  refusal 
to  take  the  Kaiser's  part  in  1914,  are  not  at  all  well 
known. 

The  Colonel  told  of  the  clash  in  Berlin  en  route  for 
Boston  one  Sunday  in  1916. 

"It  is,"  said  he,  "not  generally  known  that  I  had 
a  little  friction  with  the  Kaiser  when  I  visited  Ger 
many. 

"When  I  reached  Berlin  I  found  an  invitation  for 
1  Mr.  Roosevelt'  to  be  the  Kaiser's  guest  at  Potsdam. 
Mrs.  Roosevelt  was  travelling  with  me.  I  asked  at 
the  Embassy  what  the  invitation  meant  —  if  it  in 
cluded  her.  When  I  found  it  did  not,  I  declined,  and 
said  I  was  stopping  at  the  Embassy. 

"The  invitation  was  repeated.  My  answer  was 
that  Mrs.  Roosevelt  and  I  were  to  be  the  guests  of 
the  Embassy.  I  was  travelling  as  any  American 
gentleman  might  travel  with  his  wife  and  I  did  not 


CLASHES  WITH  THE  KAISER         41 

propose  to  go  any  place  where  she  would  not  be  wel 
comed  or  could  not  go.  The  next  day  '  Colonel  and 
Mrs.  Roosevelt'  were  invited.  By  maintaining  my 
point  I  had  made  it. 

"While  I  was  his  guest,  Wilhelm,  a  delightful  host, 
was  very  frank  in  telling  what  he  thought  of  other 
Americans  who  had  visited  him  —  Andrew  Carnegie 
and  others.  Later  he  sent  me  photographs  he  had 
taken  of  some  of  them  with  bits  of  his  opinions  of 
them  written  on  the  backs.  They  were  not  opinions 
calculated  to  please  the  subjects  of  the  pictures. 

"  I  suppose  he  was  advised  that  he  should  not  have 
done  this,  for  the  return  of  the  photographs  was  re 
quested.  I  said,  'Oh,  no,  His  Majesty  the  Kaiser 
gave  the  photographs  to  me  and  I  propose  to  retain 
them/  I  suppose  I  was  the  one  man  in  the  Empire 
at  the  time  who  could  refuse  to  obey  his  wishes. 

"Anyway,  I  kept  the  photographs.  They  have 
been  mounted  on  glass  so  one  can  read  the  inscrip 
tions. 

"  I  clashed  again  with  the  Kaiser  directly  the  War 
broke  out,"  the  Colonel  went  on. 

"Then  I  was  called  upon  by  a  young  member  of 
the  German  Embassy  staff  in  Washington  —  a  count 
—  I  cannot  recall  his  name  now. 

"I  am  instructed  by  His  Majesty  the  Kaiser,' 
said  he,  '  to  present  his  compliments  to  Colonel 


42  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

Roosevelt,  to  say  to  him  that  he  has  very  pleasant 
recollections  of  his  visit  to  Berlin  and  Potsdam  and 
to  say  that  he  hopes  Colonel  Roosevelt  will  appre 
ciate  Germany's  position  and  can  be  relied  upon  to 
see  the  justice  of  it.' 

1  You  will  please  present  my  compliments  to  His 
Majesty  the  Kaiser/  I  answered;  'say  to  him  that  I, 
too,  have  very  pleasant  recollections  of  my  stay  in 
Berlin  and  Potsdam,  and  his  many  courtesies  to  me, 
his  guest,  but  that  I  also  have  a  very  lively  recollec 
tion  of  courtesies  extended  to  me  by  His  Majesty, 
the  King  of  Belgium,  whose  guest  I  also  was/ 

"He  clicked  his  heels  together,  saluted  and  left. 
I  have  not  heard  from  him  or  the  Kaiser  since. 

"I  imagine  the  Kaiser  also  had  recollections  of 
the  Venezuela  matter.  He  was  convinced  that  I  was 
bluffing  when  he  was  told  I  would  maintain  the 
Monroe  Doctrine.  Von  Holleben,  then  Ambassador, 
told  him  so;  so  reported  to  the  Foreign  Office.  I  in 
sisted  on  our  rights,  and  finally  told  the  Ambassador 
that  Admiral  Dewey  and  his  ships  would  be  ordered 
to  sail  for  Venezuelan  waters  within  twenty-four 
hours  if  in  the  meantime  I  did  not  receive  definite 
assurances  that  Germany  had  abandoned  its  inten 
tions.  Dewey  was  then  in  West  Indian  waters. 

"Von  Holleben  then  concluded  that  I  was  not 
bluffing,  and  his  cable  reversing  himself  caused  a 


CLASHES  WITH  THE  KAISER          43 

panic  in  the  German  Foreign  Office.  Soon  after  this 
he  was  recalled  in  disgrace.  He  was  in  so  bad  only 
one  German  official  was  at  the  ship  to  see  him  off. 
On  his  return  to  Germany  he  dropped  out  of  sight 
completely. 

"The  one  man  who  sized  me  right  and  who  put 
Berlin  on  the  right  track  was  Carl  Buenz,  then 
Consul-General  in  New  York.  He  lived  out  Long 
Island  way  and  had  visited  me  at  Sagamore  Hill. 
He  was  shrewd  enough  to  size  up  the  situation  accu 
rately.  He  told  the  Embassy  it  was  in  error  and 
warned  it  to  beware,  that  I  was  not  bluffing. 

"Lately,  you  will  recall,  Buenz  has  been  indicted 
for  plotting  to  put  bombs  on  English  ships  —  some 
of  those  German  war  plots. 

"  Dewey  at  that  time  had  instructions  to  be  ready 
to  move  on  a  moment's  notice." 

Subsequent  to  this  conversation  Henry  A.  Wise- 
Wood,  noting  that  the  accuracy  of  some  of  Colonel 
Roosevelt's  published  utterances  on  the  Venezuela 
matter  had  been  challenged,  wrote  to  Admiral 
Dewey.  Dewey's  reply,  published  at  the  time,  cor 
roborated  fully  all  that  the  Colonel  had  said  about 
holding  his  ships  in  readiness  for  action. 

"That,  gentlemen,"  said  the  Colonel,  calling 
attention  to  the  Dewey  letters,  "is  another  of  those 
instances  where  proof  of  things  you  know  to  be  so 


44  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

comes  to  you  when  you  need  it  from  unexpected 
quarters.  It  is  passing  strange  how,  somehow  or 
other,  truth  will  out.*' 

Once,  later,  Colonel  Roosevelt  mentioned  Carl 
Buenz.  Buenz,  who  was  out  on  bail  on  the  plot 
charges,  was  old  and,  as  it  proved,  hopelessly  ill. 
He  wished  permission  to  return  to  Germany  in  the 
hope  that  he  might  there  get  relief,  or,  failing  that, 
die  in  his  old  home.  To  get  this  permission  he  asked 
the  Colonel's  assistance. 

"  I  surely  shall  do  all  that  I  can  for  him,"  he  said, 
"but  I  fear  that  all  won't  be  much.  He  is  entitled  to 
consideration,  not  because  he  plotted,  as  I  assume  he 
did,  but  for  the  really  valuable  service  he  did  this 
country  as  well  as  his  own  in  the  Venezuela  matter. 
Whatever  else  he  may  have  done,  this  should  not 
be  forgotten.  I  hope  he  gets  what  he  asks,  but  I  am 
afraid  he  won't." 

The  Colonel's  fears  proved  true,  and  Buenz,  later 
convicted,  died  in  the  Federal  Penitentiary  at 
Atlanta. 


THAT  GARY  DINNER 

IT  is  not  known  to  many  that,  in  1915,  Colonel 
Roosevelt  threatened,  in  the  event  that  cer 
tain  contingencies  became  facts,  to  support  Presi 
dent  Wilson  for  reelection  against  the  Republican 
nominee. 

The  threat  was  made  at  a  luncheon  given  at  the 
Harvard  Club  in  December  of  that  year  by  the  late 
Robert  J.  Collier.  Later,  in  explaining  the  famous 
Gary  dinner  to  me,  Colonel  Roosevelt  repeated  the 
threat. 

The  Gary  dinner  may  well  be  described  as  the 
mystery  of  the  1916  campaign.  Exactly  what  it 
meant,  few  knew  then,  and,  publicly  it  has  never 
been  authoritatively  explained. 

The  facts  are  that  it  was  but  an  incident  in  the 
Colonel's  campaign  for  preparedness  —  he  attended 
it  that  he  might  explain  so  that  "big  business  men, 
who  have  not  been  my  friends,  but  who  now  know 
that  I  am  right,  might  see  the  situation  exactly  as  it 
is,  and  be  in  a  position  to  help." 

"There  is,"  said  he  immediately  after  the  dinner, 
"no  politics  in  this.  We  have  come  to  a  situation 
where  all  Americans  must  stand  together  —  big 
business  men  and  little  business  men,  farmer  and 


46  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

banker,  artisan  and  longshoreman.  I  have  not  gone 
to  the  big  business  men  —  they  have  come  to  me." 

That  the  Gary  dinner  threw  the  politicians  into 
a  flutter  and  sent  such  "Old  Guardsmen"  as  Boies 
Penrose  and  Murray  Crane  flying  to  New  York  to 
find  out  what  it  was  all  about,  was  entirely  due  to 
the  fact  that  Mrs.  Harold  Vivian,  wife  of  a  political 
writer  on  the  New  York  World,  had  an  engagement 
to  attend  a  concert  on  the  night  of  the  dinner. 

The  next  morning,  Vivian,  in  the  course  of  break 
fast  small  talk,  asked  how  she  enjoyed  the  entertain 
ment. 

"I  did  not  go,"  said  she.  "You  see "  (naming 

the  young  woman  with  whom  she  was  to  have  gone) 
"had  to  sing  at  the  big  dinner  Judge  Gary  gave 
Colonel  Roosevelt  last  night." 

Vivian  lost  interest  in  the  grapefruit  then  and 
there.  He  knew  of  the  Colonel's  rule  about  attending 
private  dinners  except  in  his  own  home  or  in  the 
homes  of  his  immediate  friends  as  well  as  the 
Colonel's  horror  of  large  private  dinners  anywhere. 
It  appealed  to  him  as  a  story,  and  the  next  day  the 
fact  that  there  had  been  such  a  dinner,  together  with 
the  names  of  the  guests,  was  made  public.  What 
happened,  what  was  said  at  the  dinner,  was  not.  In 
consequence,  political  editors  and  the  public  jumped 
at  the  conclusion  that  Colonel  Roosevelt  was  pre- 


THAT  GARY  DINNER  47 

paring  to  run  for  the  Presidency  again.  For  some 
days  there  was  considerable  speculation  as  to  what 
it  really  meant,  until  Robert  E.  MacAlarney,  then 
city  editor  of  the  New  York  Tribune,  suggested  I  see 
Colonel  Roosevelt  and  end  the  mystery. 

My  reception  by  the  Colonel  was  characteristic. 

"I  certainly  will  not  give  any  interview  on  that 
dinner/'  he  declared.  "Neither  will  I  authorize  any 
statement.  I  will,  however,  tell  you  just  what  it 
means  and  what  happened  there,  and  then,  if  you 
wish,  you  can  explain  in  your  own  way  and  on  your 
own  responsibility. 

"It  is  absolutely  nonsensical  to  assume,  as  some 
have  assumed,  that  this  dinner  had  anything  to  do 
with  my  being  a  candidate  for  President.  I  am  not 
thinking  of  anything  of  that  sort  now. 

"All  that  was  discussed  at  that  dinner  was  what 
you  might,  for  want  of  a  better  term,  call l  the  greater 
Americanism/  If  that  is  politics,  then  we  talked 
politics. 

"Now,  let  us  sit  down  and  discuss  this  thing. 
When  I  am  through  you  can  tell  me  what  you  think 
you  want  to  do.  You  can  have  all  the  facts;  you  need 
all  the  facts  to  write  of  the  thing  intelligently.  But 
whatever  you  write,  it  must  be  understood  that  I 
must  not  be  quoted  and  it  must  not  be  made  to 
appear  that  I  am  the  source  of  information. " 


48  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

"How  was  it,"  I  asked,  "that  Judge  Gary,  whom 
I  know  to  be  interested  in,  and  an  advocate  of,  pre 
paredness,  happened  to  ask  you  to  meet  the  people 
who  were  at  that  dinner  ?" 

"  It  is  not  my  practice,"  said  he,  "to  cross-examine 
those  who  invite  me  to  dine  as  to  their  motives  for 
so  doing.  But  if  I  were  to  guess,  I  would  say  that  one 
actuating  motive  was  a  feeling  of  'I  told  you  so/ 

"Gary,  as  you  probably  know,  has  always  been 
friendly  to  me.  I  do  not  know  that  he  voted  for  me  in 
1912,  but  I  would  not  be  surprised  to  learn  that  he 
did.  All  but  two  or  three  of  his  guests  that  night  were 
anti-Roosevelt  men  eighteen  months  ago.  They  were 
very  much  opposed  to  my  work  for  preparedness. 
The  few  that  were  not  anti-Roosevelt  men  were  of 
the  opinion  that  I  was  committing  political  hara-kiri. 
The  others  said  I  was  rocking  the  boat. 

"Now  they  say  that  in  preaching  preparedness,  I 
was  right  and  am  right.  And  I  think  that  Mr.  Gary 
had  in  a  way  a  sort  of  desire  to  say  to  his  friends  in 
important  business: 

" '  Come  and  have  a  look  at  this  fellow  you  thought 
so  terrible;  notice  that  he  does  not  shoot  at  the  musi 
cians;  that  he  eats  in  a  normal  way  and  prefers  his 
food  cooked;  that  when  he  talks  he  talks  sanely  as 
you  and  I  talk,  and  talks  nothing  but  the  soundest 
kind  of  Americanism.' 


THAT  GARY  DINNER  49 

"That  is  only  a  guess,  however.  In  any  event  it 
could  not  have  been  the  big  motive.  Behind  it  all, 
I  believe,  was  a  desire  of  these  men  —  all  Americans, 
men  who  have  done  things  and  are  doing  big  things, 
men  who  have  a  stake  in  the  country  —  to  take 
counsel  together  on  the  big  problem  of  national  pre 
paredness.  Under  the  circumstances,  was  it  not  nat 
ural  that  I  should  be  asked  to  attend  and  submit 
my  views?  I  was  glad  to  go,  glad  that  these  men  were 
seeing  the  light.  That's  all  there  was  to  that. 

"What  did  I  tell  them?  Exactly  what  I  have  been 
telling  others  for  months  past,  ever  since  the  war  in 
Europe  began,  and  what  I  propose  to  tell  everybody 
who  will  listen  to  me  —  the  need  of  preparation. 

"But  with  all  of  this  talk  about  the  Gary  dinner 
why  is  the  luncheon  Bobby  Collier  gave  at  the  Har 
vard  Club  overlooked?  There  were  politics  there  in 
plenty.  Mr.  Collier,  I  suspect,  also,  had  something 
of  the  'I  told  you  so*  idea  in  his  head  when  he 
planned  the  luncheon,  for,  in  the  movement  for  pre 
paredness,  he  was  in  much  the  same  position  as 
Judge  Gary  —  with  me,  but  lonesome  so  far  as  his 
every-day  associates  were  concerned. 

"All  but  one  or  two  of  the  men  he  had  at  the 
luncheon  were  anti- Roosevelt  men  three  years  ago. 
They  were  anti-Roosevelt  men  when  I  began  talking 
preparedness  eighteen  months  ago.  Then  they  said, 


50  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

as  Judge  Gary's  friends  had  said, '  Roosevelt  is  rock 
ing  the  boat/  Three  fourths  of  them  —  most  of  the 
party  were  writers  —  agreed  with  me  before  they 
left. 

"We  did  talk  politics  there  —  the  straightest  kind 
of  politics.  The  political  discussion  was  started  by 
Frank  Simonds  referring  to  an  editorial  in  the  New 
York  Tribune  calling  attention  to  the  way  party 
leaders  were  dodging  the  real  issue  and  asking,  *  Do 
they  want  Roosevelt?'  meaning,  as  you  know,  for 
President  in  1916.  That  editorial  was  strong  meat. 
It  appealed  to  me  immensely. 

"  In  the  discussion  that  followed,  I  said  that,  much 
as  I  dislike  Mr.  Wilson  and  despise  his  policies,  in  the 
event  of  the  Republicans  nominating  any  man  on 
a  hyphen  platform  or  on  hyphenated  promises,  I 
would  support  President  Wilson  for  reelection  with 
all  of  the  strength  at  my  command. 

"And,  by  Godfrey,  I  mean  it!  If  there's  a  mongrel 
platform  adopted  by  the  Republican  Convention, 
much  as  I  dislike  Wilson,  I  '11  stump  the  country  for 
him  from  one  end  of  it  to  the  other  and  I  won't  ask 
his  permission  to  do  so  either. 

"No  platform  and  no  man  who  swerves  in  the 
slightest  degree  from  absolute  loyalty  to  the  greater 
Americanism  can  have  my  support.  I  will  not  be 
neutral  if  such  a  candidate  is  named  or  such  platform 


THAT  GARY  DINNER  51 

adopted.  There  is  no  such  thing  as  being  neutral 
between  right  and  wrong.  Neutral!  I  do  not  care 
who  the  man  is  or  who  his  friends  are  or  who  comes 
to  me  in  his  behalf,  if  such  a  candidate  is  named, 
I  will  fight  him  with  every  weapon  at  my  command. 

"But  at  neither  place  did  I  say  anything  to  ad 
vance  either  my  own  candidacy  or  that  of  any  other 
man.  I  am  not  interested  in  candidates.  I  am  inter 
ested  in  principles.  My  sole  interest  at  these  two 
affairs  was  to  try  and  arouse  the  American  people, 
to  urge  them  and  ultimately,  through  them,  compel 
Congress  to  take  the  proper  attitude  on  the  question 
of  greater  Americanism  and  national  preparedness. 
If  you  say  that  I  am  working  not  for  a  nomination, 
but  as  every  American  should  work  to  secure  the 
peace  and  prosperity  of  the  United  States,  you  will 
have  hit  the  nail  on  the  head. 

"  And  don't  overlook  the  fact  that  any  Republican 
who  seeks  President  Wilson's  place  by  pandering  to 
the  hyphens  will  find  that  he  is  fighting  Roosevelt 
as  well  as  Wilson. 

"I  dislike  Wilson,  I  dislike  his  policies  almost  to 
the  point  of  hate,  but  I  am  too  good  an  American  to 
stand  idly  by  and  see  him  beaten  by  a  mongrel 
American  or  by  one  professing  mongrel  principles." 


THE  COLONEL  AND  JUDGE  HUGHES 

THROUGH  the  1916  campaign  Colonel  Roose 
velt  was  careful,  even  with  his  intimates,  to 
say  nothing  that  would  in  any  way  reflect  upon 
Judge  Hughes.  Hughes  was  the  candidate  of  the 
party,  he  preferred  him  over  Mr.  Wilson,  but  he 
was  not  the  type  T.  R.  favored.  More  than  that,  in 
their  personal  relations  the  Colonel  felt  that  Judge 
Hughes  had  not  treated  him  quite  fairly.  This  was 
in  connection  with  the  Barnes  libel  suit  in  which  the 
Colonel  had  hoped  Judge  Hughes  would  be  one  of 
his  most  important  witnesses. 

Occasionally  during  the  campaign  a  scornful  refer 
ence  to  the  " bearded  lady'*  advised  whoever  of  the 
inner  circle  was  addressed  that  it  was  Mr.  Hughes 
who  was  in  the  Colonel's  mind.  Such  occasions  were 
rare,  and  developed  only  when  the  Colonel,  who, 
with  all  his  heart  and  soul  prayed  for  Republican 
success,  was  piqued  by  the  lack  of  "pep"  in  the 
Hughes  canvass  and  the  failure  of  the  candidate  to 
take  a  definite  position  on  Germany. 

He  was,  moreover,  thoroughly  familiar  with  the 
innermost  details  of  the  Hughes  campaign,  more  so, 
some  folks  thought,  than  the  candidate  himself. 
These  details  came  to  him  from  many  and  widely 


THE  COLONEL  AND  JUDGE  HUGHES     53 

scattered  sources.  For  example,  there  was  hardly  a 
reporter  on  the  Hughes  trains  or  at  the  national 
headquarters  but  that  was  cold  toward  the  candi 
date.  The  more  seasoned  of  them  were  of  the  T.  R. 
"  Old  Guard,"  members  of  the  "  Roosevelt  newspaper 
cabinet,"  and  as  loyal  to  the  Colonel  as  the  bull  pup  he 
sometimes  referred  to  as  a  standard  of  loyalty.  These 
did  not  hesitate  to  tell  the  Colonel  whenever  they 
saw  him  —  and  they  made  it  their  business  to  meet 
him  whenever  possible  —  the  inside  news  of  the  trips. 

"Feeling  as  you  do/'  he  remarked  to  one  of  these, 
"you  are  going  to  find  it  difficult  to  vote  for  Mr. 
Hughes." 

"Hughes,  hell,"  replied  William  Hoster,  the  man 
addressed;  "I  desire  to  save  a  fragment  of  my  self- 
respect." 

After  Hoster  had  gone,  I  remarked  that  he  seemed 
"to  feel  rather  keenly  on  the  subject  of  Hughes." 

" I  am  afraid,"  said  the  Colonel,  "that  there  are  a 
great  many  like  him.  Hughes  is  not  an  attractive 
personality  at  best.  Close  contact  with  him  does  not 
make  him  more  attractive,  for  he  is  a  very  selfish, 
very  self-centred  man.  Those  boys  would  like  to  be 
his  friends,  but  he  won't  let  them  and  his  namby- 
pamby  policy  or  lack  of  real  policy  disgusts  them. 

"They  have,  as  the  boys  would  themselves  say, 
taken  his  measure. 


54  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

"You  know  as  well  as  I  do  that  some  of  the  boys 
on  that  train  and  at  Bridgehampton  [Hughes's  sum 
mer  home]  are  among  the  shrewdest  judges  of  poli 
tics  in  this  country.  They  see  —  they  must  see  — 
many  things  on  a  trip  any  candidate  will  overlook 
however  shrewd  he  is.  They  know  the  psychology  of 
crowds  and  the  newspapers  and  are  valuable  advis 
ers  in  a  campaign.  Does  Mr.  Hughes  take  advantage 
of  all  this?  No,  he  just  withdraws  into  his  whiskers, 
and  their  advice,  when  they  manage  to  force  it  upon 
him,  is  ignored. 

"  What  these  men  hate  is  his  cowardice  —  his  re 
fusal  to  say  anything,  however  right,  that  might 
jeopardize  his  chances.  If  he  had  consulted  these  men 
and  taken  their  advice  he  would  never  have  trafficked 
with  Jerry  O'Leary." 

With  the  verdict  of  the  Chicago  Convention, 
Colonel  Roosevelt  never  quarrelled.  He  accepted  it 
loyally  and  whole-heartedly,  though,  it  should  be 
said,  with  misgivings  as  to  the  result,  and  prepared 
to  efface  himself  as  much  as  possible,  lest  by  unduly 
remaining  in  the  limelight  he  injure  the  candidate's 
chances.  His  fear  was  that  Hughes  would  not  make 
the  right  sort  of  a  campaign. 

"Hughes's  danger,"  he  then  said,  "is  that  he  will 
not  carry  the  fight  to  Wilson." 

The  declaration  that  Hughes  would  have  to  fight 


THE  COLONEL  AND  JUDGE  HUGHES     55 

to  win  was  made  immediately  after  the  convention 
and  before  the  public  at  large  knew  what  position  he 
would  take  in  the  canvass.  He  was  not  at  all  confi 
dent  of  the  result,  not  wholly  satisfied  with  Hughes 
as  a  candidate,  but  he  never  hesitated  about  sup 
porting  him. 

When  he  made  this  declaration  he  had  prepared 
his  letter  declining  the  Progressive  nomination  and 
was  awaiting  the  meeting  of  the  Progressive  Na 
tional  Committee  in  Chicago  before  making  public 
his  position.  Judge  Hughes  knew  this;  so  did  the 
leaders  of  the  Republican  and  what  was  left  of  the 
Progressive  Party. 

His  own  programme  was  definite.  It  provided  for 
such  speeches  for  Hughes  as  might  be  called  for,  but 
otherwise  none  of  the  limelight  for  him. 

"The  truth  is,"  said  he,  "and  a  fellow  does  not 
like  to  speak  as  I  am  going  to,  I  have  done  my  share. 
Let  some  one  else  carry  the  load  for  a  while. 

"After  to-morrow's  meeting  in  Chicago  I  hope  to 
be  let  alone.  The  Committee  will  agree  with  me  — 
there  will  be  nothing  more  for  me  to  say.  I  have  said 
it  all  in  my  letter.  Mr.  Hughes  has  seen  it  and  is 
satisfied.  There  is  nothing  more  for  me  to  do  or 
say. 

"Don't  you  see  that  as  things  are  working  out  I 
took  the  only  course  open?  If  Burton  or  Harding  had 


56  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

been  named,  I  would  have  to  support  the  nominee 
against  Wilson.  Imagine  Hughes  at  his  very  possible 
worst,  and  he  cannot  do  worse  than  Wilson  has  done 
or  is  doing.  It  is  impossible.  Any  change  is  bound  to 
be  a  good  one.  Hughes  will  develop  all  right  if  he  is 
elected.  I  can  do  nothing  but  support  him. 

"Hughes  won't  come  out  here.  I  don't  believe  he 
will.  What  will  probably  happen  is  this:  I  will  meet 
Mr.  Hughes  in  town  at  dinner;  speeches  will  come 
later  —  if  they  come  at  all.  Whatever  I  do  depends 
on  Mr.  Hughes. 

"  I  cannot  make  his  fight  for  him  or  tell  him  how 
to  fight.  He  must  do  his  own  battling,  make  his  own 
plans.  His  danger  is  that  he  will  not  carry  the  fight 
to  Wilson.  If  he  does  that  he  is  safe.  But  if  he  allows 
Wilson  to  get  the  jump  on  him  he  is  beaten.  Wilson 
will  do  it  with  him  if  he  does  not  watch  out.  As  mat 
ters  stand,  and  if  the  election  were  held  to-morrow, 
Hughes  is  beaten. 

"Here  is  the  cruelty  of  this  nomination  of  Hughes: 
For  years  he  has  been  out  of  touch  with  real  things ; 
he  knows  nothing  of  the  great  things  the  Progressive 
Party  movement  stood  for  and  did ;  he  is  out  of  touch 
with  the  man  in  the  street ;  out  of  touch  with  national 
and  world  politics.  He  is  nominated  at  a  time  when 
we  needed  an  advocate  —  not  a  judge. 

"I  cannot  but  support  Hughes.  You  see  that  as 


THE  COLONEL  AND  JUDGE  HUGHES     57 

clearly  as  I  do.  It  is  the  only  thing  for  me  to  do  be 
cause  it  is  the  right  thing  to  do." 

A  few  days  later,  June  28,  to  be  exact,  Colonel 
Roosevelt  motored  into  New  York  to  dine  with  Mr. 
Hughes  —  just  as  the  Colonel  had  said  some  days 
before  they  probably  would  meet.  The  two  dined 
alone  with,  the  Colonel  told  me,  Mr.  Hughes  doing 
most  of  the  talking. 

" It  was,"  he  told  me  the  next  day,  "not  my  night 
to  talk.  When  I  had  pledged  him  my  support  to  the 
limit,  there  was  little  for  me  to  say.  As  I  have  said 
to  you  and  to  others,  I  cannot  make  his  fight  or 
plan  it. 

"I  did  tell  him,  though,  that  he'd  have  to  make 
an  aggressive  fight  of  it,  to  keep  Wilson  on  the  jump 
every  blessed  minute,  and  not  to  be  any  more  afraid 
of  hurting  the  feelings  of  pro-Germans,  real  Germans, 
and  Pacifists  than  he  was  of  hurting  the  feelings  of 
race- track  gamblers  when  he  was  Governor;  that  he 
must  hit  and  hit  hard." 

"Will  he  do  it,  Colonel?"  I  asked. 

"  I  don't  know,"  he  replied.  "A  term  on  the  bench 
takes  the  punch  out  of  many  men ;  it  slows  them  up. 
It  may  be  that  way  with  Hughes;  I  don't  know.  But 
I  do  know  that  he  must  fight  to  win." 

At  this  talk  he  reiterated  a  hope,  expressed  im 
mediately  after  Mr.  Hughes  was  nominated,  that 


S8  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

the  newspapers  allow  him  to  drop  out  of  the  lime 
light. 

" There  won't  be  a  thing  doing  out  here/'  he  said 
("here"  being  Sagamore  Hill).  "You  see  I  have 
simply  got  to  stay  out  of  the  limelight.  These  fools 
who  want  me  to  jump  into  the  middle  of  the  cam 
paign  do  not  know  what  they  are  talking  about. 

"It  would  lick  Hughes  sure. 

"It  could  not  help  but  make  him  a  tail  of  the 
Roosevelt  kite.  It  would  not  be  fair  to  him  or  to  me. 
You  see  that.  The  most  I  can  do  is  to  make  two  or 
three  prepared  addresses. 

"Furthermore,  unless  you  boys  [the  reporters] 
keep  me  to  the  rear,  allow  me  to  go  to  the  rear,  you  '11 
beat  Hughes  sure  as  shooting  —  make  no  mistake 
about  that." 

In  the  Hughes  campaign  Colonel  Roosevelt  made 
one  trip  as  far  west  as  the  Rockies,  the  original  pro 
gramme  of  going  through  to  California  being 
amended.  This  change  in  the  itinerary  in  all  prob 
ability  cost  Mr.  Hughes  the  election.  Made  by  the 
National  Committee,  the  Colonel's  intimates  be 
lieved  the  change  was  due  to  a  desire  that  nothing 
be  done  which  might  help  Hiram  Johnson  in  his  cam 
paign  for  the  Senate  or  offend  Harrison  Gray  Otis, 
W.  W.  Crocker,  and  other  "Old  Guardsmen"  who 
were  opposed  to  him. 


THE  COLONEL  AND  JUDGE  HUGHES     $9 

Even  then,  the  trip  came  dangerously  close  to 
ending  at  Denver,  where  on  his  arrival  the  Colonel 
found  a  messenger  awaiting  to  ask  that  he  confine 
future  addresses  to  the  tariff  and  Mexico  and  let 
Germany  and  preparedness  alone.  At  first  the 
Colonel  agreed  to  this.  Then  he  wired  the  National 
Committee  cancelling  all  his  engagements  east  of 
Denver.  This  the  Committee  apparently  dared  not 
do,  for  he  was  wired  to  proceed  as  he  wished. 

From  this  trip  the  Colonel  returned  rather  de 
pressed  and  worried  as  to  the  result.  It  was  to  have 
been  his  only  trip,  but  in  the  last  week  of  the  cam 
paign  the  Republican  National  Committee  called  on 
him  to  go  to  Ohio.  There  had  been  many  calls  for 
him  from  that  quarter  early  in  the  contest,  but  it 
was  not  until  November  I  when  he  was  started  on 
an  admitted  forlorn  hope. 

That  night,  speaking  of  the  situation,  he  declared 
the  Wilson  tide  was  receding,  but  he  doubted  if  it 
was  receding  fast  enough. 

"I  doubt  it,"  he  said.  "I  have  no  fears  for  New 
York,  but  I  am  afraid  of  the  West.  If  Hughes  would 
only  do  something ! 

"  Hughes  has  not  made  Wilson  fight.  As  matters 
are,  the  people  do  not  know  where  Hughes  does 
stand  —  they  look  upon  him  as  another  Wilson  when 
they  do  not  look  upon  him  as  a  man  without  a  policy. 


60  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

"  It  is  his  own  fault.  I  tell  you  he  would  have  won 
even  German  votes  by  preaching  straight  Ameri 
canism. 

"The  campaign  has  lacked  definite  direction.  It 
has  been  like  Mr.  Hughes's  speeches  —  it  has  lacked 
the  punch.  It  is  a  fact  that  a  lot  of  the  aged  reaction 
aries  who  have  had  so  much  to  say  at  headquarters 
really  think  this  fight  could  have  been  won  on  the 
tariff/' 

Coming  back  East  after  speaking  in  Toledo  and 
Cleveland,  he  returned  to  the  subject,  declaring  that 
Ohio  was  gone,  that  even  "poor  Herrick  is  beaten 
with  the  rest  —  a  victim  of  the  cowardice  of  others/' 

"  Herrick  "was  Myron  T.  Herrick,  our  ambassador 
to  France  in  the  early  days  of  the  war>  and  a  prime 
favorite  of  the  Colonel's;  he  was  the  candidate  for  the 
United  States  Senate. 

"The  'Old  Guard'  here  is  not  awake  yet,"  said 
he;  "they  have  simply  thrown  the  State  away. 

"I  have  been  asked  to-night  why  I  did  not  come 
out  earlier  in  the  campaign  when  they  asked  for  me 
instead  of  going  into  the  sagebrush.  I  told  them  I 
went  where  I  was  sent;  that  they  should  ask  that 
question  of  the  National  Committee." 

Sometime  after  the  campaign  was  ended,  a  visitor 
at  Sagamore  Hill  remarked:  "Anyway,  we  have  n't 
Hughes  to  worry  about." 


THE  COLONEL  AND  JUDGE  HUGHES    61 

"Exactly,"  said  the  Colonel;  "we  did  not  elect 
Hughes  and  we  are  not  responsible  for  Mr.  Wilson. 

"Hughes  would  have  been  another  Wilson  in 
many  respects,  only  he  would  have  surrounded  him 
self  with  men  of  a  higher  grade  than  Mr.  Wilson  has 
about  him.  He  could  not  well  get  men  inferior  to  those 
about  Mr.  Wilson.  But  he  would  have  considered  his 
election  an  act  of  God,  and,  in  the  Wilson  way,  been 
careless  or  contemptuous  of  the  opinions  of  others." 

Mr.  Hughes  came  up  for  discussion  again  at 
luncheon  at  Sagamore  Hill  just  before  Christmas  of 
that  year.  The  Colonel  was,  as  usual,  to  play  Santa 
Claus  at  the  Cove  School,  and  the  "newspaper  cab 
inet"  was  down  for  the  occasion.  In  the  luncheon 
party,  in  addition  to  Colonel  and  Mrs.  Roosevelt, 
were  N.  A.  Jennings,  Mrs.  Jennings,  William  Hoster, 
Rodney  Bean,  S.  L.  Bate,  the  then  resident  corre 
spondent  at  Oyster  Bay,  and  myself.  As  it  was  the 
first  time  since  election  that  so  many  members  of  the 
"cabinet "  had  met  with  the  Colonel,  there  was  much 
discussion  of  that  event,  but  more  of  the  statement 
of  Secretary  Lansing  a  few  days  previous  to  the 
effect  that  "we  are  on  the  edge  of  war,"  followed 
by  the  Secretary's  explanation  that  he  did  not  ex 
actly  mean  what  he  seemed  to  say,  the  whole  matter 
complicated  by  rumors  of  "leaks"  to  Wall  Street 
and  bad  breaks  in  the  market. 


62  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

"The  antics  of  the  last  few  days,"  said  the  Colonel 
in  this  discussion,  "have  restored  to  me  what  self- 
respect  I  lost  supporting  Mr.  Hughes/ 

Months  later  Colonel  Roosevelt  told  something 
of  his  relations  with  Judge  Hughes  prior  to  1916  that 
partly  explained  the  small  opinion  he  held  of  him. 

" Hughes,"  said  he,  "went  plumb  back  on  his 
words  and  on  me  when  Barnes  sued  me  for  libel.  One 
of  Barnes's  grievances  was  my  charge  of  bi-partisan 
management  of  the  State  of  New  York  by  him  and 
Murphy.  Hughes  himself  made  that  charge  to  me 
when  the  direct  primary  fight  was  on.  Later,  when  I 
needed  him,  he  denied  all  knowledge  of  it. 

"It  came  about  in  this  way:  In  his  fight  as 
Governor  for  good  government,  Mr.  Hughes  com 
plained  that  Murphy  and  Barnes  were  working  to 
gether  to  defeat  legislation ;  that  there  was  evidence 
of  a  definite  agreement  and  the  two  machines  were 
working  as  one,  not  only  in  this,  but  in  other  matters 
affecting  the  public  interest. 

"When  the  Barnes  suit  came  up,  I  wanted  him  as 
a  witness.  He  declared  that  he  did  not  recall  the 
conversation  and  that  he  had  no  recollection  that 
such  a  state  of  affairs  had  existed.  Even  when  he 
was  shown  a  printed  statement  coming  from  him, 
he  had  no  recollection  of  the  matter.  That  is  the  way 
Mr.  Hughes  stands  up. 


THE  COLONEL  AND  JUDGE  HUGHES    63 

"  It  was  his  idea  in  this  campaign  to  keep  away  as 
much  as  possible  from  all  reference  to  the  war  in 
Europe  or  preparation  for  our  inevitable  part  in  it. 
He  wanted  to  make  his  fight  on  war  with  Mexico, 
as  though  people  could  be  interested  in  that.  The 
real  subject  he  dodged  whenever  he  could.  More 
than  that,  he  tried  to  make  me  dodge  it. 

"To  do  this  Garfield  was  sent  to  meet  me  in 
Denver  and  ask  that  in  my  speeches,  especially  in 
Chicago,  I  omit  preparedness  and  national  defence. 
It  was  feared  that  I  would  alienate  the  women  vot 
ers.  I  agreed  to  do  so,  but  after  sleeping  on  the 
matter,  decided  it  was  not  the  thing  for  me  to  do. 
So  I  wired  National  Headquarters  cancelling  all  of 
my  engagements.  The  answer  to  this  was  advice  to 
proceed  as  I  had  been,  talking  what  was  in  me. 

"Results  in  Chicago  proved  that  was  the  correct 
course.  The  honest  course  always  is.  At  the  stock 
yards,  I  had  a  most  wonderful  meeting  and  the 
women  were  the  most  enthusiastic  of  the  lot.  The 
idea  of  American  manhood,  willing  and  insistent  on 
defending  its  women  and  children  even  to  the  point 
of  going  to  war  to  avenge  their  murder,  was  not  at 
all  abhorrent  to  them.  On  the  contrary,  they  took 
no  offence  at  my  treatment  of  the  Lusitania  affair. 

"That  was  Mr.  Hughes's  work  —  his  idea  of  the 
way  a  candidate  should  go,  the  way  the  advocates 


64  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

of  a  candidate  should  go,  always  dodging  any  real 
issue  that  might  cost  votes." 

Again,  in  the  Mitchel  campaign,  Colonel  Roose 
velt  expressed  an  opinion  of  Judge  Hughes.  It  was 
at  a  meeting  in  Madison  Square  Garden  over  which 
the  Judge  presided.  To  make  it  a  go,  every  device  of 
the  political  showman  was  resorted  to.  Even  the  old- 
fashioned  torchlight  parade,  dead  thirty  or  more 
years,  was  resurrected.  Colonel  Roosevelt,  who  had 
been  speaking  in  Schuetzen  Park,  Astoria,  came  in 
late.  I  met  him  in  the  27th  Street  entrance  to  the 
hall. 

" How's  the  meeting  going?"  he  asked,  sotto  voce. 

"It's  cold,  freezing  cold,  Colonel,"  I  answered. 
"  You  '11  need  your  overcoat." 

The  Colonel  grinned. 

"Hughes,"  he  replied,  "must  have  brought  his 
ice  with  him." 


HIS  A  SIMPLE  CREED 

DURING  the  1916  campaign  Colonel  Roosevelt 
had  an  attack  of  dry  pleurisy  which  kept  him 
away  from  church  one  Sunday.  Late  that  afternoon 
I  called  and  remarked  that  the  "boys  thought  it 
funny  you  did  not  go  to  church." 

"Huh,  they  did,  did  they?  Well,  you  just  tell  them 
that  if  they  think  dry  pleurisy  is  a  joke,  they  'd  better 
try  it.  I  am  just  going  to  stay  right  in  here  the  next 
four  or  five  days.  Anyway,  so  far  as  church  is  con 
cerned,  I  just  had  the  Reverend  Talmage  up  to  look 
me  over,  the  church  came  to  me,  and  I  Ve  had  the 
benefit  of  clergy. 

"Speaking  of  church,  you  once  told  me  you  were 
heterodox.  That's  right,  is  n't  it?  Well,  do  you  know, 
I  think  —  I  wonder  if  you  recall  one  verse  of  Micah 
that  I  am  very  fond  of  —  'to  do  justly  and  to  love 
mercy  and  to  walk  humbly  with  thy  God '  —  that 
to  me  is  the  essence  of  religion.  To  be  just  with  all 
men,  to  be  merciful  to  those  to  whom  mercy  should 
be  shown,  to  realize  that  there  are  some  things  that 
must  always  remain  a  mystery  to  us,  and  when  the 
time  comes  for  us  to  enter  the  great  blackness,  to  go 
smiling  and  unafraid. 

"That  is  my  religion,  my  faith.  To  me  it  sums  up 


66  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

all  religion,  it  is  all  the  creed  I  need.  It  seems  simple 
and  easy,  but  there  is  more  in  that  verse  than  in  the 
involved  rituals  and  confessions  of  faith  of  many 
creeds  we  know. 

"To  love  justice,  to  be  merciful,  to  appreciate 
that  the  great  mysteries  shall  not  be  known  to  us, 
and  so  living,  face  the  beyond  confident  and  without 
fear  —  that  is  life. 

"That 's  too  simple  a  creed  for  many  of  us,  though. 
Perhaps  it  is  as  well  and  that  through  more  involved 
paths  and  mazes  of  theology  the  majority  should 
seek  the  same  result. 

"  I  can  quarrel  with  no  man  because  of  his  religion. 
The  Roman  Catholic,  the  Jew,  the  Protestant,  the 
Mohammedan,  the  follower  of  Confucius  —  all  are 
right  so  long  as  they  seek  to  follow  what  their  leaders 
have  taught.  You  have  done  much  of  prison  work. 
You  know  that  the  Roman  Catholic  is  in  prison,  not 
because  of  his  faith,  but  because  he  broke  away  from 
it;  the  Jew  is  there  because  he  and  the  synagogue  are 
no  longer  friends;  the  Protestant,  because  his  religion 
has  ceased  to  be  a  living  thing  and  his  soul  has 
atrophied. 

"You  know  that. 

"My,  but  I  have  no  patience  with  those  who 
attack,  who  would  destroy  a  man's  belief  in  religion 
—  no  patience  with  those  who  would  convert  the 


HIS  A  SIMPLE  CREED  67 

Jew  en  masse,  or  the  Catholic.  More  likely  than 
not,  where  they  succeed  at  all  they  succeed  only  in 
destroying  something  —  they  take  something  real 
away  and  give  nothing  in  return,  leaving  the  victim 
bankrupt.  I  am  always  sorry  for  the  faithless  man, 
just  as  I  am  sorry  for  the  woman  without  virtue. 

"I  have  found,  though,  that  however  they  may 
appear  outwardly,  most  men  at  bottom  are  religious, 
just  as  the  preponderating  majority  of  men  are  hon 
est  and  of  women  virtuous.  Otherwise  our  civiliza 
tion  would  end  overnight. 

"Most  men,  I  believe,  are  good  citizens  according 
to  their  lights.  Take '  Big  Tim '  Sullivan,  for  example. 

"Tim  came  to  me  while  I  was  in  the  White  House 
to  get  a  pardon  for  a  friend.  The  man  was  in  Atlanta 
for  blowing  a  post-office  safe,  shooting  the  watch 
man,  and  I  know  not  what.  Tim  was  insistent  that 
he  had  reformed  and  that  he  'd  go  straight  if  he  were 
pardoned.  The  Post-Office  folk  did  not  think  so, 
neither  did  the  Department  of  Justice.  They  insisted 
the  man  must  not  be  pardoned.  But  Tim  was  so  sure, 
so  positive,  however,  that  his  friend  had  changed 
that  I  decided  to  favor  him. 

"Til  give  you  this  pardon,  Tim,'  said  I,  'on  one 

condition.  You  must  take  it  to  Atlanta  yourself,  see 

1  this  man  before  he  has  a  chance  to  see  any  of  his 

old  pals,  and  warn  him  that  if  he  goes  wrong  again, 


68  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

he  will  not  only  be  punished  to  the  limit,  but  will 
have  to  finish  out  this  sentence  as  well.  There  will  be 
no  mercy  for  him.  And  at  the  end  of  the  year  I  want 
you  to  bring  the  fellow  here  and  let  me  know  how 
he's  made  out.' 

"Tim  agreed  to  this.  He  would  have  agreed  to 
anything  and  kept  his  agreement,  too.  He  got  the 
pardon  and  went  his  way.  I  forgot  all  about  the 
thing  until  just  one  year  after,  I  was  told  Tim  was 
waiting  to  see  me.  He  had  an  appointment,  he  told 
the  attendant.  I  could  not  recall  any,  but  I  always 
liked  the  big  fellow  and  I  had  him  sent  in. 

" '  Mr.  President/  said  he,  when  he  came  in,  '  I  Ve 
come  about  that  fellow  Blank.  You  know  you  told 
me  to  bring  him  here  when  he  'd  been  out  a  year  and 
let  you  know  how  he's  been  acting.  He's  outside 
now.' 

" '  Yes,  I  remember,'  I  told  him.  'How  has  he  been 
doing?' 

"'He's  been  perfect,  Mr.  President,'  said  the  big 
fellow.  'When  I  got  him  to  New  York  I  put  him  to 
work  behind  a  wheel  in  a  gambling-house,  and  he 's 
been  doing  fine  ever  since/ 

"That  was  good  behavior,  as  Big  Tim  saw  it!" 

The  Colonel  concluded,  saying:  "Well,  you're 
getting  the  sermon  you  missed  by  not  going  to 
church,  and  I  have  been  talking  religion.  It's  some- 


HIS  A  SIMPLE  CREED  69 

thing  I  do  very  seldom.  After  all,  one's  religion  is  a 
private  thing  and  one  is  apt  to  be  misunderstood. 

"So  —  if  I  should  say  publicly  or  you  should  print 
one  half  of  what  we  have  said  here  to-day,  some  half- 
baked  ass  of  a  preacher  would  attack  me  to-morrow 
for  endorsing  the  Pope;  another  because  I  am  a 
Mohammedan  at  heart;  and  another  would  see  in 
my  tolerance  for  the  rabbi  proof  that  my  right  name 
is  Rosenfelt  or  Rosen  thai." 

This  little  "sermon"  was  delivered  shortly  after 
the  1916  convention.  Through  the  chat,  of  which  it 
was  a  part,  it  was  apparent  that  the  Colonel  was  in 
an  introspective  mood.  He  was  making,  it  seemed,  a 
brave  effort  to  conceal  the  hurt  received  at  Chicago. 
During  this  talk  I  could  not  down  the  feeling  that 
like  many  another,  wounded  in  spirit,  he  was  con 
sciously  or  unconsciously  turning  to  religion  for 
comfort. 

As  we  were  parting,  Hayes,  his  ex-soldier  secre 
tary,  came  up  the  drive  with  the  news  that  President 
Wilson  had  called  the  National  Guard  for  possible 
service  in  Mexico.  The  Colonel  looked  far  off  over 
Long  Island  Sound  in  a  thoughtful  way,  then  shook 
his  head. 

11  Can  you  say  any  thing  on  that,  Colonel?  "  I  asked. 

"No,"  said  he,  and  his  teeth  clicked.  "Let  Hughes 
talk.  It  is  his  fight." 


HIS  HOLD  ON  THE  PUBLIC 

MANY  have  asked  the  secret  of  Roosevelt's 
wonderful  hold  on  the  public,  and  his  ability 
to  carry  a  crowd  with  him.  Presumably  the  question 
will  be  discussed  long  after  those  who  heard  him 
have  crossed  the  Great  Divide,  and  with  as  wide,  if 
not  as  great,  a  difference  of  opinion  as  when  he  was 
in  the  flesh. 

His  own  explanation  may  be  given  in  one  word: 
11  Sincerity. " 

This,  he  maintained,  was  the  real  secret,  though 
he  admitted  that  other  qualities  in  his  speeches  were 
contributing  factors. 

The  discussion  in  which  the  Colonel  declared  him 
self  on  this  point  came  one  night  when  he  and  a 
party  of  three  were  returning  to  New  York  from  a 
red-hot  Roosevelt  meeting  —  two  meetings,  in  fact, 
one  in  a  hall,  the  other  outside. 

It  was  precipitated  by  a  remark  by  A.  Leonard 
Smith  of  the  New  York  Times,  to  the  effect  that  the 
Colonel  "certainly  had  that  crowd." 

"What  seemed  to  get  them?"  asked  the  Colonel. 

It  was  a  question  none  in  the  party  could  answer, 
for  the  crowd,  like  most  Roosevelt  crowds,  was 
enthusiastic  from  the  start,  and  one  could  not  say 


HIS  HOLD  ON  THE  PUBLIC  71 

that  this,  that,  or  the  other  point  had  been  the  most 
effective.  Smith  ended  this  phase  of  the  discussion- 
by  declaring  the  Colonel  "always  got  the  crowd." 

"My  observation,"  said  he,  "has  been  that  the 
result  is  the  same  whatever  you  talk  upon  —  you 
get  the  crowd  just  the  same." 

"What,"  asked  the  Colonel,  "is  the  explanation? 
It  certainly  is  not  because  I  am  an  orator  —  for  I 
am  not.  I  have  n't  the  voice  to  be  an  orator.  What 
is  it?" 

Smith  submitted,  "Probably  because  your  words 
always  carry  a  punch,"  as  his  answer.  Another  in 
the  group  thought  it  might  be  because  the  Colonel 
"always  had  something  to  say." 

"Is  n't  it  because  the  crowd  always  knows  I  am 
sincere?"  asked  the  Colonel.  "I  think  it  is.  Other 
wise —  bah!"  (this  with  a  wave  of  his  hand)  "it 
surely  must  be  that  in  the  years  I  have  been  in  public 
life,  folks  have  always  found  me  sincere.  Men  do  not 
always  agree  with  me;  in  fact"  (this  whimsically) 
"  many  have  been  known  to  differ  with  me  very  seri 
ously;  but  my  worst  enemies  do  not,  I  believe,  ques 
tion  my  sincerity.  Men  who  do  not  know  me  may 
doubt  my  sincerity,  but  no  one  who  knows  me  does. 
At  bottom,  I  do  not  believe  any  of  the  "Old  Guard," 
Bill  Barnes  included,  would  question  my  sincerity. 
They  know  better. 


72  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

"What  you  say  about  my  having  the  punch  is, 
perhaps,  a  factor;  but  my  speeches  would  never  get 
over  if  people  did  not  believe  I  was  sincere.  An 
orator,  which  I  am  not,  would  get  a  crowd,  perhaps, 
but  he  could  not  hold  them  if  he  lacked  sincerity,  or 
if  the  people  thought  he  did. 

"We  have  all  seen  orators  come  and  go,  but  none 
ever  retained  a  hold  on  any  perceptible  part  of  the 
public  who  at  least  did  not  carry  the  impression  of 
sincerity. 

"I  have  never  hesitated  to  say  a  thing  because  it 
might  be  unpopular  any  more  than  I  have  ever  found 
it  at  all  necessary  to  say  things  I  did  not  believe 
merely  because  they  might  be  popular.  In  the  end, 
as  Emerson  says,  truth,  however  unpleasant,  is  the 
safest  travelling  companion.  I  have  never  found  it 
at  all  necessary  to  pussyfoot  or  indulge  in  pleasing 
sophistries  to  hold  any  crowd. 

"On  the  other  hand,  I  have  never  hesitated  to 
tell  folks  unpleasant  things  I  thought  they  should 
be  told,  any  more  than  I  have  been  afraid  of  heck 
lers.'1 

Far  from  being  afraid  of  hecklers,  Colonel  Roose 
velt  rejoiced  in  them.  Again  and  again,  in  the  1916 
campaign,  local  leaders,  fearful  he  might  offend 
somebody,  would  ask  that  he  go  slow,  lest  hecklers 
disturb  him. 


HIS  HOLD  ON  THE  PUBLIC  73 

Once,  a  United  States  Senator  asked  that  he  con 
fine  his  talk  to  the  tariff. 

"  My  dear  Senator,"  said  he,  "you  will  pardon  me 
for  saying  I  will  do  nothing  of  the  kind.  I  did  not 
come  here  to  talk  tariff,  the  crowd  did  not  come  here 
to  hear  me  talk  tariff,  and  I' 11  be  hanged  if  I  do  talk 
tariff.  I  '11  talk  what  is  in  me." 

"But,  Colonel,"  persisted  the  local  man,  "we 
know  that  there  is  an  organized  plan  to  heckle  you 
if  you  talk  war  and  preparedness." 

"So!"  said  the  Colonel,  "so?" 

"Yes,  Colonel,  there  will  be  many  hecklers  there." 

Roosevelt,  annoyed  for  an  instant,  suddenly  broke 
into  a  grin. 

"Jack,"  he  called  to  me  in  much  the  same  manner 
that  a  small  boy  would  announce  ice-cream  would 
be  served  at  dinner,  "did  you  hear  that?  The  Senator 
here  promises  us  that  we'll  have  some  hecklers  to 
night!  Is  n't  that  bully?" 

There  were  hecklers  that  night  —  just  two  of 
them.  Their  efforts  served  to  emphasize  the  Colonel's 
points,  both  giving  him  openings  he  was  quick  to 
take  advantage  of  to  the  delight  of  his  audience.  On 
the  way  to  the  train  I  remarked  that  the  dreaded 
questioners  had  not  made  much  progress. 

"Of  course  they  did  n't,"  he  replied.  "They  sel 
dom  if  ever  do.  A  man  with  an  honest  question  has 


74  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

no  terrors  for  a  speaker  who  is  honest  himself.  A  dis 
honest  heckler  has  no  chance  with  an  honest  speaker. 
"But  if  a  man  is  sincere  —  he  has  nothing  to  fear. 
If  he  is  n't  sincere  —  he  has  no  business  speaking.  In 
the  long  run,  sincerity  must  be  the  test  of  any  public 


man." 


THAT  GOLDEN  SPECIAL 

IN  the  year  1916  Colonel  Roosevelt  frequently 
crossed  the  trail  of  the  famous  " golden  special" 
train  carrying  women  from  a  non-suffrage  State  to 
tell  the  women  in  suffrage  States  how  to  vote. 
Weeks  before  the  press  told  the  real  story  of  the 
special,  of  orders  "furs  on"  or  "furs  off,"  "wear 
jewels"  or  "dress  plainly,"  wired  back  from  advance 
agents,  he  had  it  from  twenty  sources. 

"That  train  cost  $45,000,"  an  indignant  State 
Chairman  told  the  Colonel.  "Why  did  the  National 
Committee  ever  allow  it  to  start  out?" 

"Well,"  said  the  Colonel  dryly,  "  I  do  not  pretend 
to  speak  for  the  National  Committee,  nor  am  I 
called  upon  to  defend  its  idiosyncrasies,  but  if  I  were 
to  guess  I  might  say,  somebody  at  headquarters 
thought  it  worth  $45,000  to  get  some  of  those  women 
as  far  away  from  headquarters  as  possible.  It  is  an 
example  of  the  way  things  have  been  done  in  this 
campaign." 


ON  ELECTION  EVE,  1916 

THE  day  before  election  in  1916,  I  saw  Colonel 
Roosevelt  at  Sagamore  Hill.  I  raised  the  ques 
tion  as  to  what  would  follow  if  Judge  Hughes  should 
by  any  chance  be  elected. 

"I  shall  be  out  of  it,"  said  he.  "I  shall  ask  for 
nothing  from  him  and  will  recommend  nobody.  He 
will  not  ask  my  advice.  So  I  will  just  be  an  elderly 
literary  gentleman  of  quiet  tastes  and  an  interesting 
group  of  grandchildren. 

"Make  no  mistake  about  Hughes.  The  men  who 
gave  him  the  nomination  will  regret  the  day  they 
did  it.  Some  of  them  have  reason  to  regret  it  now. 
He  feels  that  he  owes  them  nothing,  that  he  owes  the 
party  nothing.  He  will  have  trouble  with  the  organi 
zation,  but  he  will  make  a  fair  President. 

"You  see  Mr.  Hughes  is  grateful  to  nobody  but 
Almighty  God,  and  I  am  not  so  sure  he  is  over- 
grateful  to  Him.  He  truly  believes  he  was  chosen 
by  God  to  be  President,  when  as  a  matter  of  fact 
he  was  merely  picked  by  the  'Old  Guard1  to  beat 
Roosevelt/* 

"Suppose  Mr.  Wilson  wins,  what  then?" 

"He  will  muddle  along  just  as  he  has  been,  writing 
notes  that  are  brave,  but  doing  nothing  to  back  them 


ON  ELECTION  EVE,  1916  77 

up  until  Germany  decides  it  wants  us  in  this  war  and 
kicks  us  into  it.  Against  that  contingency  he  will  do 
nothing  and  war  will  find  us  as  unprepared  as  we 
were  two  years  ago. 

"  I  shall  continue  as  I  have  been  doing  to  advocate 
preparedness  and  to  try  to  arouse  the  people  to  the 
need  of  universal  military  service.  I  shall  not  make 
the  headway  I  should  because  of  Mr.  Wilson's  atti 
tude.  I  have  no  delusions  on  that  score.  But  I  shall 
continue,  for  whatever  we  do  succeed  in  doing  is 
that  much  gained. 

"But  whether  it  be  Mr.  Hughes  or  Mr.  Wilson 
that  is  elected,  the  result  will  be  that  we  will  be  in 
this  war  sooner  or  later  unless  Mr.  Hughes  is  much 
more  fortunate  than  I  fear  he  will  be. 

"  If  he  is  elected  and  is  big  enough,  if  he  is  strong 
enough  to  make  an  out-and-out  declaration  of  pure 
Americanism  —  if  he  is  big  enough  to  serve  notice 
that  he  will  make  Germany  toe  the  mark,  when  and 
if  he  becomes  President,  he  may  keep  us  out. 

"But  Wilson,  never!  He  will  have  secured  his  re 
election  and  be  in  a  position  to  do  big  things.  But 
he  won't  do  them.  He'll  simply  write  notes  until 
something  so  audacious  is  done  that  he  will  wake 
up  to  the  fact  that  Germany  has  been  making  war 
upon  us  while  he  has  been  writing." 

True  to  his  promise,  Colonel  Roosevelt  issued  on 


78  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

election  night  a  declaration  that  he  was  in  private 
life  and  would  neither  ask  anything  of  Mr.  Hughes, 
who  then  appeared  to  have  been  elected,  or  to  recom 
mend  any  one  for  office.  Later  when  it  appeared  that 
California  was  in  doubt  and  that  Mr.  Wilson  might 
be  reflected,  he  expressed  no  surprise. 

11 1  was  not  at  all  certain  in  my  own  mind  that  the 
confidence  of  the  New  York  papers  or  of  theNational 
Headquarters  was  fully  justified  when  I  gave  out 
that  statement,'*  he  said.  "But  it  is  just  as  well  I 
did  so.  It  certainly  left  the  record  straight." 


PERKINS  AND  T.  R. 

GEORGE  W.  PERKINS,  if  the  politicians  who 
opposed  Colonel  Roosevelt  in  1912  and  again 
in  1916  are  to  be  believed,  was  to  have  been,  the 
Mark  Hanna  of  the  Administration  in  the  event  of 
Colonel  Roosevelt  returning  to  the  White  House. 
According  to  them,  there  was  a  perfect  understand 
ing.  On  this  they  were  unanimous.  They  differed 
only  when  it  came  to  naming  the  place  Perkins  would 
reserve  for  himself. 

The  truth,  as  I  had  it  from  Colonel  Roosevelt  on 
several  occasions,  was  that  Perkins  asked  for  nothing 
and  was  promised  nothing  for  himself  or  anybody 
else. 

"Perkins,"  said  the  Colonel  at  Sagamore  Hill  one 
day,  "has  been  mentioned  many  times  as  the  prob 
able  recipient  of  some  office  were  I  reflected  Presi 
dent,  but  there  never  has  been  any  promise  or  under 
standing,  direct  or  implied,  and  these  predictions 
have  been  without  any  authority  whatever  from  me. 
The  newspaper  boys  —  have  just  been  guessing. 
They  knew  that  nobody  ever  did  anything  for  me 
that  I  did  not  repay  if  and  when  I  properly  could. 

"Of  course,  I  would  have  had  to  do  something  for 
Perkins.  I  would  have  made  him  Secretary  of  the 


8o  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

Treasury  or  of  Commerce.  He  would  be  entitled  to 
something  and  would  be  an  extremely  valuable  man 
in  either  place.  Perkins  is  eminently  fitted  for  either 
of  those  places.  In  either  place  he  would  have  made 
a  record  hard  to  equal.*' 

*  Mr.  Perkins  ceased  to  be  Colonel  Roosevelt's 
political  manager  soon  after  the  1916  campaign, 
John  T.  King,  Republican  National  Committeeman 
from  Connecticut,  taking  on  the  work  formerly  done 
by  Perkins.  There  was,  however,  no  break  in  the 
intimate  social  relations  of  the  two.  Nor  was  there 
any  break  politically.  There  was  need  for  none,  for 
at  the  end  of  the  1916  campaign  there  was  little  or 
nothing  ^to  do  in  a  political  way,  and  Perkins,  in 
consequence,  ceased  to  function  as  a  politician.* 

In  the  1916  campaign  Colonel  Roosevelt  had  be 
come  well  acquainted  with  King.  King  had  turned 
Bridgeport,  which  had  been  so  hopelessly  Democratic 
that  the  Republicans  cast  fewer  votes  than  the 
Socialists,  into  a  banner  Republican  community.  In 
1916  it  saved  the  State  for  Hughes.  Alone  of  the 
National  Committee  early  that  year  he  sensed  the 
party  danger  in  California,  but  was  unable  to  make 
those  in  charge  of  the  campaign  see  things  as  he  did. 
As  the  campaign  ended,  he  and  Colonel  Roosevelt 
agreed  something  must  be  done  to  bring  the  party 
together. 


PERKINS  AND  T.  R.  81 

Colonel  Roosevelt  had  been  much  impressed  by 
King's  personality  and  the  method  by  which  he  had 
built  up  the  party  in  Bridgeport.  The  organization 
there,  he  found,  was  made  up  largely  of  men  who 
worked  in  the  factories;  it  was  close  to  the  people 
and  it  was  clean.  The  well-to-do  and  the  wealthy 
were  represented  on,  but  did  not  dominate,  it,  and 
campaign  funds  were  not  welcomed  from  question 
able  sources.  Moreover,  King  was  persona  grata  to 
all  elements  in  the  party,  and,  a  tireless  worker  him 
self,  he  had  the  faculty  of  making  others  work. 
*  Perkins,  on  the  other  hand,  was  persona  non  grata 
with  many.  Those  who  had  stuck  with  the  "Old 
Guard"  resented  his  prominence  in  party  affairs, 
and  ex- Progressives  who  had  returned  to  the  party 
frankly  distrusted  him.  Most  of  the  "Old  Guards 
men"  were  willing  to  forget  everything  connected 
with  1912  but  Perkins,  and  the  ex-Progressives 
everything  in  1916  but  PerkinsX 

This  was  the  situation  in  February,  1917,  when 
the  time  came  for  the  National  Committee  to  select 
a  successor  to  Chairman  Wilcox,  who  had  resigned. 
King,  as  the  representative  of  Connecticut,  was 
going  to  the  meeting  in  St.  Louis,  and  was,  in  fact, 
Colonel  Roosevelt's  first  choice  for  Chairman.  Per 
kins  was  also  going,  against  the  wishes  of  Colonel 
Roosevelt.  Better  than  Perkins  he  realized  that  as  a 


82  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

peacemaker,  Perkins  would  be  about  as  useful  as  an 
orange  flag  at  an  outing  of  the  Ancient  Order  of 
Hibernians.  In  consequence,  he  said,  he  made  it 
clear  to  Perkins  that,  while  he  could  not  prevent  his 
attending  the  conference,  he  must  go  there  repre 
senting  no  one  but  himself. 

At  the  same  time,  as  a  means  of  satisfying  any 
doubting  Thomas,  he  gave  King  a  letter  designating 
him  as  the  only  person  authorized  to  speak  for  him 
in  St.  Louis.  This  document  was  the  last  he  signed, 
by  the  way,  before  entering  St.  Luke's  Hospital  for 
the  operations  that  so  nearly  proved  fatal. 

"  I  am/'  he  told  me,  "  giving  John  King  credentials 
that  I  think  will  satisfy  anybody  as  to  who 's  who  in 
our  set.  This  I  believe  a  wise  precaution,  for  Perkins 
insists  on  going  out  there,  and  there  are  sure  to  be 
some  doubting  Thomases.  Perkins  won't  misrepre 
sent  the  situation,  but  others  may;  there  are  some 
who  will  insist  on  misunderstanding  the  exact  status 
of  things,  and  others  who  may  misrepresent  matters. 
You  know"  —  this  with  a  laugh  —  "there  are  some 
persons  who  dislike  Perkins  even  more  than  they 
dislike  Roosevelt,  and  there  are  others  who  seem 
to  lack  faith  in  all  George  says. 

"  I  have  tried  to  make  him  see  things  as  I  see  them 
but  he  insists  on  going  there." 

Before  the  St.  Louis  conference  was  under  way, 


PERKINS  AND  T.  R.  83 

Colonel  Roosevelt  was  in  the  hospital  a  very  sick 
man.  Through  it  all  he  was  in  ignorance  of  what  was 
developing,  and  the  conference  was  a  closed  incident 
before  he  was  sufficiently  recovered  to  be  told  the 
result.  He  at  once  wired  congratulations  to  Will  H. 
Hays,  the  new  Chairman  of  the  Committee,  an  invi 
tation  to  call  accompanying  the  congratulations. 
Hays  called  within  a  few  days,  as  did  King  and 
Perkins. 

All  this  time  the  replacement  of  Perkins  by  King 
had  escaped  popular  notice.  Inadvertently,  a  re 
porter  for  a  news  agency  was  the  cause  of  its  becom 
ing  public.  In  a  ten-line  story  he  described  Mr.  King 
as  "the  Colonel's  personal  representative  at  St. 
Louis"  without  a  thought  of,  and  in  fact  with 
out  knowing,  the  significance  of  this  statement  to 
persons  whose  habit  it  is  to  read  their  papers 
closely. 

The  description  impressed  John  H.  Gavin,  city 
editor  of  the  New  York  World,  as  something  worth 
looking  into.  If,  as  seemed  likely,  there  was  a  real 
break  between  the  Colonel  and  Perkins,  it  was  page  I 
news,  particularly  for  a  Democratic  organ  that  for 
years  had  had  its  own  private  feud  with  the  Colonel. 
Those  in  possession  of  all  the  facts  were  too  close- 
lipped  to  allow  them  to  escape,  so  the  best  that  could 
be  done  was  an  elaboration  of  the  original  statement 


84  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

plus  King's  admission  that  he  had  been  "the  Colo 
nel's  representative  at  St.  Louis." 

Perkins,  on  his  part,  avoided  the  real  issue  by 
declaring  he  knew  "of  no  man  less  in  need  of  a 
political  manager  than  Colonel  Roosevelt." 

Colonel  Roosevelt  chuckled  when  he  heard  of  the 
World's  attempt  to  develop  the  story,  at  the  same 
time  recognizing  Gavin's  astuteness  in  smelling  it  out. 

"Wouldn't  the  World  just  enjoy  a  real  knock- 
down-and-drag-out  fight  between  Perkins  and  me!" 
he  said.  "Well,  there  will  be  none. 

"Perkins  does  not  like  John  King.  I  am  sorry  for 
that,  but  his  opposition  to  King  cannot  change  my 
relations  with  him.  There  is  no  change  in  the  social 
relations  with  Perkins  and  myself.  I  look  for  none. 
But  as  a  matter  of  fact,  he  has  not  represented  me 
politically  since  1916.  So  that,  so  far  as  he  is  con 
cerned,  there  really  is  no  change  in  our  relations. 
They  remain  the  same  as  ever,  and  they  will  so  re 
main  if  I  have  anything  to  say  about  it. 
X  "Those  who  know  of  our  relations  know  that 
George  Perkins  never  asked  anything  of  me  and  was 
never  promised  anything,  directly  or  indirectly.  Had 
I  been  elected  in  1912,  I  would  have  made  him  Sec 
retary  of  the  Treasury  or  Commerce,  if  he  would 
have  taken  a  place.  In  either  place  he'd  reflect  credit 
on  any  Administration,  x 


PERKINS  AND  T.  R.  85 

"Many  foolish  persons  —  mainly  politicians,  who 
at  times  are  the  most  foolish  people  on  earth  — 
imagined  Perkins  planned  to  play  Mark  Hanna  to 
my  McKinley.  Perkins  had  no  such  thought.  He 
knew  better.*' 


A  CABINET  THAT  NEVER  WAS 

ONCE  in  a  retrospective  mood,  Colonel  Roose 
velt  talked  of  the  Cabinet  he  would  have 
named  had  he  returned  to  the  White  House  on 
March  4,  1917. 

"I  should, "  said  he,  "have  made  Perkins  Secre 
tary  of  the  Treasury  or  of  Commerce.  He  would 
have  been  entitled  to  something  and  could  be  an 
extremely  valuable  man  in  either  place. 

"I  should  have  made  John  King  of  Connecticut 
Postmaster-General . 

"Of  course  there  is  only  one  man  for  Secretary  of 
War  —  General  Goethals.  I  should  have  made  Ray 
mond  Robins,  of  Illinois,  Secretary  of  Labor,  and 
Meyer  Lissner,  Secretary  of  the  Interior.  That 
would  be  a  well-balanced  and  highly  efficient  organ 
ization/' 

"You  have  left  the  Navy,  State,  and  Justice  port 
folios  vacant,"  I  remarked. 

"Well,  for  Navy,  Admiral  Winslow  if  I  had  had  to 
draft  him.  I  don't  know  who  I  'd  get  for  State,  but  I 
know  who  I  would  like  —  Lodge,  if  I  could  drag  him 
out  of  the  Senate.  For  the  Department  of  Justice, 
the  west  coast  would  have  supplied  a  man  —  just 
who  I  never  quite  decided." 


A  CABINET  THAT  NEVER  WAS        87 

King,  I  remarked,  would  probably  not  care  for 
the  Post-Office  Department. 

"Then  he  should  have  something  else.  King  is  no 
ordinary  citizen.  He  is  a  very  able  man  and  honest. 
I  like  King  and  his  wonderful  method  of  organiza 
tion.  I  shall  have  to  tell  'Ted'  Robinson  to  look  into 
it." 


SENATOR  LODGE'S  FIST  FIGHT 

YOU  do  not  mean  that?  Why  that  is  even  better 
than  I  thought!  You  know  the  papers  said  the 
pacifist  struck  the  first  blow?" 

I  had  returned  to  Oyster  Bay  from  Washington 
via  Boston,  and  had  the  "inside"  story  of  Senator 
Henry  Cabot  Lodge's  fist  fight  with  a  pacifist,  and 
the  effect  it  had  had  on  the  Senator's  constituents. 

"The  folks  down  Massachusetts  way  are  amazed 
and  pleased,"  I  told  the  Colonel.  "If  Lodge  were  a 
candidate  for  anything  to-morrow,  he'd  carry  even 
South  Boston  —  and  that,  normally,  is  six  to  one 
Democratic." 

"That  is  splendid,"  said  the  Colonel.  "Now,  do  I 
understand  you  right  —  Lodge  hit  this  fellow  im 
mediately  he  called  him  a  coward?  Is  that  right?" 

"Yes,  sir,  as  I  get  it,  and  I'm  sure  of  my  facts; 
he  got  in  the  first  wallop.  That  is  why  he  refused  to 
prosecute  the  man. 

"The  funniest  thing  is  Lodge's  home  paper,  the 
Lynn  Item.  This  has  always  been  a  sort  of  organ  of 
his,  treating  him  with  respect,  almost  to  the  point 
of  awe.  It's  been  picturing  him  in  ring  togs  as  'the 
Nahant  Kid,'  with  huskies  removing  his  victim  by 
head  and  heels.  Everybody  is  tickled  silly  with  the 


EN  ROUTE  FOR  THE  TROPICS 


SENATOR  LODGE'S  FIST  FIGHT        89 

idea  of  the  Senator  developing  a  wallop  in  his  old 
age." 

"I  must  say  that  I  share  their  sentiments,  though 
I  am  not  exactly  surprised  at  his  resenting  an  in 
sult,"  said  the  Colonel.  "He's  not  like  some  men 
you  and  I  know.  I  '11  admit,  however,  it  is  a  bit  un 
usual  for  him  to  appear  in  such  a  role.  I  'm  not  ex 
actly  surprised,  and  I  'm  sure  his  people  would  n't 
be  if  they  knew  Lodge  as  well  as  they  think  they  do. 
If  they  did,  to  use  your  irreverent  phrase,  they'd 
know  him  to  be  'a  regular  fellow'  in  pretty  much 
everything.  I  know  you've  used  that  term  'the 
Colonel  was  in  a  bantering  mood '  —  I  've  heard 
you. 

"His  constituents,  like  most  other  people,  think 
of  Lodge  as  'the  scholar  in  politics,'  and  it  never  oc 
curred  to  them  that  a  scholar  could  or  would  fight. 
In  the  light  of  recent  performances  I  do  not  know 
that  I  blame  them  much. 

"Lodge,  you  know,  has  always  rather  cultivated 
that  'scholar  in  polities'  tradition.  He's  been  the 
scholar  and  he's  been  in  politics,  but  he's  a  mighty 
practical  man  at  that.  Of  course  I  know  they  have 
never  seen  Lodge  when  he  did  look  the  scholar  part. 
If  there  was  any  fault  in  his  make-up,  he  was  too 
well  groomed.  He  has,  however,  been,  to  once  more 
use  your  irreverent  description,  a  'regular  fellow/ 


90  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

and  he  has  taken  good  care  of  his  physical  self.  He 
does  not  look  the  athlete,  but  he's  more  powerful 
physically  than  he  looks. 

"Of  course  Lodge  will  fight.  He's  never  had  real 
occasion  to  do  so  until  this  fellow  came  along.  Then 
he  did  as  he  always  did  —  a  first-class  job.  Of  course 
he  did  not  knock  him  out,  but  he  did  a  good  job  just 
the  same. 

"The  *  scholar'  tradition  about  Lodge  has  always 
amused  me.  He's  no  bookworm.  He  is  the  student, 
yes,  but  he's  also  the  Senator  from  Massachusetts 
—  do  not  forget  that.  I  do  not  suppose  your  friends 
in  Boston  ever  think  of  Lodge  running  about  on 
errands  for  his  constituents  as  other  Senators  and 
Representatives  have  to.  Well,  he  does  as  much  of 
that  as  any  man  I  know. 

"When  I  was  President  he'd  come  to  me  on  all 
sorts  of  errands  for  Democrats  and  Republicans 
alike.  I  once  asked  him  why  it  was  that  he  had  all 
the  unpleasant  things  to  take  care  of  for  Massachu 
setts,  pardons  and  that  sort  of  thing.  He  told  me  he 
supposed  it  was  because  the  persons  bringing  them 
to  him  could  not  be  sure  others  would  attend  to  them. 
It  involved  a  lot  of  hard  work,  much  of  it  for  people 
who  would  probably  be  out  fighting  him  the  next 
day,  but  that  did  not  matter;  at  least  it  did  not 
seem  to. 


SENATOR  LODGE'S  FIST  FIGHT        91 

"  Lodge  and  I  were  friends  long  before  he  went  to 
the  Senate  or  I  to  the  White  House.  He  was  helpful 
to  me  before  I  was  President,  but  more  so  after  I 
became  President.  I  could  depend  on  him  to  think 
clearly  and  to  give  me  of  his  best  —  he  was  abso 
lutely  unselfish  about  it,  too. 

"Some  persons  were  foolish  enough  to  think  we 
would  break  because  he  supported  Taft  in  1912. 
There  never  was  the  remotest  chance  for  that.  I 
knew  where  Lodge  stood  and  respected  his  position ; 
he  knew  my  situation  and  respected  it.  There  never 
was  a  chance  of  a  personal  falling-out.  Placed  as  he 
was,  Lodge  could  not  have  acted  differently,  and 
I  'm  glad  that  he  did  n't. 

"I  am  glad  he  had  this  fight.  I  suppose  approval 
is  what  would  be  expected  of  so  truculent  a  person 
as  I  am.  I  'm  not  surprised  nor  am  I  surprised  at  the 
way  his  constituents  look  at  it.  Everybody  admires 
manliness,  just  as  every  manly  man  despises  the 
fellow  who  won't  fight  when  he  has  due  provocation. 
Have  you  heard  what  Lodge  thinks  of  the  response 
at  home?" 

"Yes,"  said  I.  "He  has  a  roomful  of  letters  and 
telegrams  commending  him.  Publicly  he  deprecates 
the  affair;  privately  I  think  he  is  pleased.  However, 
here's  what  he  said  to  one  Boston  man: 

"'It's  a  remarkable  commentary  on  American 


92  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

public  opinion  that  after  a  lifetime  spent  in  public 
service  and  about  the  time  I  am  ready  to  pass  on, 
satisfied  that  I  have  done  some  things  my  children 
won't  be  ashamed  of,  the  public  suddenly  discovers 
I  am  a  great  man  when  I  commit  a  breach  of  the 
peace.' ' 

"The  dear  old  Brahmin,"  exclaimed  the  Colonel, 
laughing;  " that's  just  like  him.  The  'scholar  in 
polities'  simply  could  n't  bring  himself  to  saying  he 
had  indulged  in  a  fist  fight." 


ROOSEVELT'S  ONE  TALK  WITH 
MR.  WILSON 

IF  any  other  man  in  the  world  had  talked  to  me  as 
Mr.  Wilson  did,  I  would  say  I  was  sure  to  go. 
But  it  was  Mr.  Wilson  who  was  talking  and  I  am  not 
at  all  confident." 

So  Colonel  Roosevelt  summarized  his  visit  to  the 
White  House  April  7,  1917,  to  plead  for  permission 
to  go  abroad  at  the  head  of  fighting  troops. 

It  was  the  Colonel's  first  and  only  interview  with 
Mr.  Wilson  and  followed  an  unsuccessful  effort  to 
find  Mr.  Wilson  in.  The  first  call  was  made  as  the 
Colonel  was  en  route  for  home  from  a  devil-fishing 
trip  in  Florida  waters,  and  the  President  was  actu 
ally  and  not  constructively  absent  from  the  White 
House. 

Like  the  first  call,  the  second  was  unannounced. 
It  was  decided  upon  April  5,  when  the  Colonel  told  a 
few  intimates,  including  the  members  of  the  "news 
paper  cabinet, "  of  his  intention  to  leave  for  Washing 
ton  the  next  day. 

11 1  am/'  said  he,  "making  no  headway,  and  I  won't 
so  long  as  I  try  to  do  business  with  Mr.  Wilson  by 
letter.  It's  too  easy  to  shunt  me  one  side.  He  won't 
find  it  so  easy  talking  to  me  face  to  face.  I  am  not  at 


94  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

all  sure  he'll  give  in  to  me  then,  but  1 11  give  him  an 
argument  anyway." 

"Have  you,"  I  asked,  "arranged  for  an  appoint 
ment?" 

"  I  have  not  and  I  won't,"  he  replied.  "One  of  my 
friends  has  advised  that  I  do  so,  as  otherwise  I  invite 
a  snub.  What  do  you  think  of  that?" 

"Foolishness,"  I  answered.  "I  do  not  believe  Mr. 
Wilson,  however  he  may  feel,  can  afford  to  refuse  to 
see  a  former  President  of  the  United  States  calling 
to  offer  his  aid  in  time  of  war.  I  do  not  think  there's 
a  chance  for  a  snub." 

"Exactly.  I'll  take  my  chances  on  his  trying  to 
snub  me.  He  can't  do  it!  I'd  like  to  see  him  try 
it!" 

By  arrangement,  "the  cabinet"  made  no  mention 
of  the  Colonel's  intentions  or  of  his  departure  for 
Washington.  On  his  arrival  in  the  Capital  the  fact 
that  he  was  there  was  wired  the  outer  world,  but 
nothing  definite  was  said  of  his  intentions. 

"If  possible,"  he  said,  "I  want  to  avoid  any  ap 
pearance  of  storming  the  White  House." 

Whatever  the  Colonel's  intentions  were  as  to 
"storming  the  White  House,"  he  did  succeed  in 
making  the  home  of  his  daughter,  Mrs.  Longworth, 
the  real  centre  of  life  while  he  remained  in  the  city. 
From  early  morning  until  late  at  night  there  was  a 


T.  R.'S  ONE  TALK  WITH  WILSON      95 

constant  stream  of  visitors,  not  all  of  whom  suc 
ceeded  in  getting  an  audience. 

Among  those  who  did  were  the  Ambassadors  of 
the  Great  Powers,  led  by  Jusserand  of  the  famous 
"Tennis  Cabinet,"  Spring-Rice,  the  Englishman, 
and  little  Sato  from  Japan;  army  officers  of  high 
rank,  chancing  the  ill-will  of  the  Administration; 
naval  officers;  and  men  of  both  parties  in  House 
and  Senate!  — including,  of  course,  Lodge  of  Mas 
sachusetts. 

Secretary  of  War  Baker  also  came  —  of  his  own 
instance,  or,  as  the  Colonel  put  it,  "under  his  own 

steam." 

Some  of  the  earlier  callers  had  a  considerable  wait 
while  the  Colonel  was  at  the  White  House,  whither 
he  repaired  alone,  promptly  after  breakfast.  Mr. 
Wilson,  who  had  been  advised  of  his  presence  in 
Washington,  was  waiting  for  him  when  he  called, 
and,  as  the  Colonel  told  me  later,  the  interview  was 
pleasant  but  inconclusive. 

"He  received  me  very  pleasantly,"  said  the 
Colonel,  "  and  we  had  an  hour's  talk.  I  congratulated 
him  upon  his  war  message  and  told  him  it  would 
rank  with  the  world's  great  state  papers  if  it  were 
made  good. 

"And  I  told  him  I  wanted  a  chance  to  help  him 
make  it  good. 


96  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

"I  found  that,  though  I  had  written  plainly 
enough,  there  was  confusion  in  his  mind  as  to  what 
I  wanted  to  do.  I  explained  everything  to  him.  He 
seemed  to  take  it  well,  but  —  remember,  I  was  talk 
ing  to  Mr.  Wilson. 

"I  gave  out  a  statement  to  the  newspaper  boys 
at  the  White  House.  I  told  him  as  I  was  about  to 
leave  that  I  knew  I  would  be  bombarded  with  ques 
tions  and  asked  if  he  cared  to  allow  me  to  say  any 
thing.  He  outlined  what  he  was  willing  to  have  told 
of  our  conversation  and  I  asked  that  Tumulty,  who 
was  called  in  at  this  time,  come  along  with  me  while 
I  was  making  it  so  that  there  could  be  no  mistake 
or  dispute  as  to  what  I  might  say. 

"Tumulty,  by  way  of  a  half  joke,  said  he  might  go 
to  France  with  me.  I  said,  'By  Jove,  you  come  right 
along!  I  '11  have  a  place  for  you/  I  would,  too,  but  it 
would  n't  be  the  place  he  thinks.  It  is  possible  he 
might  be  sent  along  as  sort  of  a  watchdog  to  keep 
Wilson  informed  as  to  what  was  being  done.  He 
would  n't  be,  though.  He'd  keep  his  distance  from 
headquarters  except  when  he  was  sent  for." 

"Did  you  see  Baker?"  some  one  asked. 

"No,  I  have  not.  I  did  send  word  to  him  that  I 
would  be  glad  to  see  him  if  he  called.  He  is  coming 
here  later." 

The  Colonel  proceeded  from  this  point  to  make  it 


T.  R.'S  ONE  TALK  WITH  WILSON     97 

clear  he  did  not  expect  to  be  allowed  to  go  to  France 
unless  developments  forced  Mr.  Wilson  into  letting 
him  go. 

"He  has  promised  me  nothing  definitely,"  said  the 
Colonel ; ' '  but  as  I  have  said,  if  any  other  man  than  he 
talked  to  me  as  he  did  I  would  feel  assured.  If  I  talked 
to  another  man  as  he  talked  to  me  it  would  mean 
that  that  man  was  going  to  get  permission  to  fight. 

"But  I  was  talking  to  Mr.  Wilson.  His  words  may 
mean  much ;  they  may  mean  little.  He  has,  however, 
left  the  door  open. 

"The  talk  was  pleasant  enough.  What  I  tried  to 
do  was  to  impress  upon  him  the  need  of  making  our 
full  weight  felt  at  the  earliest  possible  moment. 

"  I  told  him  we  should  hit  at  once  and  hit  hard. 

"He  raised  the  question  of  equipment.  I  told  him 
what  he  already  knew  —  that  the  Allies  would  give 
me  all  the  equipment  needed  from  their  ample  stores. 
They  have  the  equipment.  They  need  men.  I  told 
him  it  would  be  preferable  to  use  the  English  or 
French  rifle,  first  because  they  are  ready,  and  again 
because  to  use  a  different  type  of  rifle  and  ammuni 
tion  would  mean  to  complicate  transport  problems 
—  might,  in  fact,  leave  men  helpless  in  the  midst  of 
plenty  through  lack  of  American  ammunition. 

"I  explained  that  all  necessary  expense  could  be 
provided  for  out  of  private  funds.  I  also  explained  to 


98  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

him  that  I  would  not  take  a  man  the  draft  might  get. 
The  fact  that  I  proposed  to  use  material  that  other 
wise  would  be  unavailable  seemed  new  to  him. 

"He  seemed  interested  and  he  asked  many  ques 
tions.  But  I  am  not  allowing  myself  to  become  over 
confident.  I  do  not  believe  he  '11  let  me  go  to  France 
unless  circumstances  that  may  develop  later  compel 
him  to  let  me  go." 

The  circumstances  the  Colonel  had  in  mind  were 
the  serious  shortage  of  man  power  in  France  and  the 
collapse  of  Russia,  then  unsuspected  by  the  world  at 
large,  but  which  he  then  predicted  as  almost  certain 
to  soon  occur. 

"The  imperative  call/'  said  he,  "is  for  men. 
France  is  bled  white.  She  has  not  men  enough  for 
another  year.  England  is  doing  her  share,  but  she 
cannot  do  all. 

"Russia  is  almost  hopeless. 

"There  is  more  than  a  fair  chance  that  Russia  will 
go  to  pieces  completely.  There  is  a  chance  she  will 
make  a  separate  peace.  This,  of  course,  relieves  Ger 
many  of  pressure  from  Russia.  It  means  that  the  war 
will  be  prolonged  —  perhaps  for  five  years. 

"Any  early  peace  must  be  a  German  peace  —  a 
German  victory. 

"  If  the  people  at  large  would  only  realize  this,  we 
would  be  all  right.  As  it  is  we  are  blundering  along 


T.  R.'S  ONE  TALK  WITH  WILSON     99 

apparently  hoping  for  a  bloodless  war.  If  we  do  not 
wake  up,  Germany  will  have  won  this  war,  and  then 
we  will  be  up  against  it. 

"I  do  not  think  that  will  be  the  result  —  it  does 
not  seem  we  are  capable  of  allowing  that  contingency 
to  become  a  fact,  but  we  must  wake  up. 

"I  told  the  President  that  with  his  permission  I 
would  submit  my  plans  to  Senator  Chamberlain  and 
Representative  Dent  and  I  am  going  right  home  to 
do  that  now.  I  am  also  going  to  send  Baker  a  copy. 

"I  had  a  good  talk  with  Baker  —  I  could  twist 
him  about  my  finger  could  I  have  him  about  for  a 
while.  But  he  does  not  realize  what  he  is  trying  to  do. 

"He  is  exactly  the  type  of  man  Mr.  Wilson  wants 
about  him.  He  will  do  exactly  what  Mr.  Wilson  tells 
him  to  do,  he  will  think  exactly  as  Mr.  Wilson  wants 
him  to  think,  and  when  Mr.  Wilson  changes  his  mind, 
he  will  change  with  him.  If  Mr.  Wilson  should  agree 
with  me  to-morrow,  Mr.  Baker  would  be  perfectly 
sure  he  always  agreed  with  me.  He's  a  pleasant 
enough  type  socially,  but  impossible  in  his  present 
place  because  he  is  inefficient  and  is  unable  to  grasp 
the  fact  that  he  is  inefficient. 

"He  has  the  blindest  faith  in  the  General  Staff 
and  the  graduates  of  West  Point.  He  does  not  realize 
that  a  muttonhead,  after  an  education  at  West  Point 
or  Harvard,  is  a  muttonhead  still." 


'THE  DIVISION" 

THE  day  the  Lusitania  was  sunk  by  a  German 
submarine,  Colonel  Roosevelt  decided  war 
with  Germany  was  inevitable  and  made  his  prepa 
rations  accordingly.  These  preparations  consisted  in 
laying  the  groundwork  for  the  division  (later  an  army 
corps)  he  asked  permission  to  recruit  and  serve  in. 

Colonel  Roosevelt  told  me  that,  when  in  June, 
1916,  war  with  Mexico  seemed  possible,  he  had 
quietly  asked  permission  to  put  a  division,  modelled 
on  the  old  "Rough  Rider"  idea,  into  the  field. 

"Winslow,"  said  he,  in  discussing  the  Mexican 
offer,  "came  in  on  this  thing  more  than  a  year  ago. 
He  was  one  of  the  first  to  be  considered  when  I  de 
cided  to  raise  the  organization.  That  was  at  the  time 
the  Lusitania  was  sunk. 

"Yes,  that  was  when  the  thing  was  born.  It  was 
planned  for  use  against  the  Germans." 

"Winslow"  was  Rear  Admiral  Cameron  McR. 
Winslow,  then  about  to  be  retired  from  the  navy 
because  of  the  age  limit. 

From  the  day  of  its  birth  until  the  plan  was  finally 
abandoned,  Colonel  Roosevelt  had  the  assistance  of 
the  ablest  men  in  the  military  service  of  the  United 
States.  The  work  was  done  quietly,  so  quietly  that 


THE  DIVISION  'i'd* 

it  was  not  until  war  threatened  with  Mexico  that 
there  was  any  public  intimation  that  the  warrior 
had  smelled  "the  battle  from  afar."  Even  then 
there  was  no  hint  allowed  to  reach  the  public  as  to 
how  nearly  complete  the  plans  were  or  that  they 
were  originally  drawn  for  use  against  Germany. 

In  this  work,  the  Colonel  followed  his  practice  of 
a  lifetime  —  early  and  careful  preparation  with  the 
utilization  of  the  best  brains  available.  Whatever 
the  impression  among  witlanders,  those  within  the 
circle  of  Colonel  Roosevelt's  friendship  knew  that  in 
military  as  in  other  matters  he  invariably  relied  on 
expert  advice.  In  so  far  as  the  army  was  concerned, 
this  was  always  his.  Never  popular  with  the  "  swivel- 
chair"  men,  and  disliked  by  others  for  the  "big 
jump  "  he  gave  Pershing,  he  was  at  all  times  the  ideal 
of  the  real  fighting  men  in  the  army.  At  the  hint 
that  he  saw  war  coming  and  was  preparing  to  take 
part  in  it,  these  besieged  him  at  Oyster  Bay  and 
bombarded  him  with  letters.  When  finally  the  plan 
was  given  world-wide  publicity,  appeals  to  be 
"counted  in"  came  by  cable  from  army  men  in 
isolated  Siam  and  far  distant  Manila,  as  well  as  from 
nearer  points  in  Europe. 

In  a  sense  the  plan  was  the  old  story  of  the  "big 
stick"  again,  for  the  central  thought  was  to  hit 
quickly  and  hit  hard. 


idi  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

Contrary  to  a  widely  held  belief,  Colonel  Roose 
velt  at  no  time  asked  or  expected  to  be  given  com 
mand  of  the  corps  or  even  of  a  division. 

"  I  shall  be  content/'  he  told  me,  as  he  did  others 
repeatedly,  "if  I  am  made  the  junior  brigadier. 

"What  I  would  like  to  see  is  two  divisions  with 
two  volunteer  and  one  regular  regiment  in  each  bri 
gade.  The  regiment  that  I  would  raise  would  be  on 
the  model  of  the  Rough  Riders  and  the  thirty  regi 
ments  raised  to  put  down  the  Philippine  rebellion. 
Most  of  those  had  young  regulars  as  colonels  and  a 
sprinkling  of  regular  officers  elsewhere.  I  have  asked 
no  man  to  join  me  who  would  be  in  the  draft  or  the 
National  Guard,  or  whose  coming  would  in  any  way 
interfere  with  the  Administration's  plans.  My  men 
would  be  of  the  solid  business  type,  $2500  to  $50,000 
a  year  men.  The  broncho-buster  type  will  be  very 
much  lacking. 

"In  asking  a  junior  place  for  myself,  I  am  doing 
what  I  did  in  the  war  with  Spain.  McKinley  offered 
me  the  colonelcy  of  the  Rough  Riders.  I  declined 
it  and  asked  that  the  command  be  given  Wood. 
It  is  worth  remembering  that  my  regiment  then 
was  raised,  armed,  equipped,  drilled,  mounted,  dis 
mounted,  kept  two  weeks  on  transports  and  put 
through  a  victorious  aggressive  fight  in  which  one 
third  of  its  officers  and  one  fifth  of  its  men  were 


THE  DIVISION  103 

killed  or  wounded,  all  within  sixty  days  from  the 
time  Wood  and  I  were  commissioned. 

"Ever  since  war  was  declared,  I  have  been  urging 
that  men  be  sent  over  at  once  —  even  a  small  force 
—  for  the  vast  moral  effect  it  would  have.  This,  I 
know,  is  what  General  Joffre  advises.  If  we  can  get 
the  necessary  permission  we  will  speed  up  on  the  lines 
followed  in  getting  my  old  regiment  into  the  field. 
The  type  of  men  we  will  get  and  intensive  training 
will  enable  us  to  land  in  France  at  a  very  early  date. 

"Some  of  you  boys  will  wish  to  come  and  I  will 
take  you  along,  but  remember,  you  '11  then  see  a  side 
of  me  you  have  n't  seen.  It  will  be  hard  work." 

Colonel  Roosevelt's  plan  contemplated,  as  he 
explained,  all  the  advantages  of  using  Guard  regi 
ments  as  the  first  (after  the  few  regulars  available) 
to  be  sent  across,  and  none  of  the  unfairness  that 
must  result  in  taking  the  large  percentage  of  men 
with  dependents  in  the  Guard  from  their  families. 
Use  of  the  Guard  regiments  on  foreign  or  semi- 
foreign,  such  as  Mexican  Border,  work,  he  always 
opposed. 

"Foolish "and  "unjust"  were  his  terms  to  de 
scribe  the  mobilizing  of  the  National  Guard  on  the 
Mexican  Border  in  1916,  when  he  made  application 
for  service  for  himself  and  the  division  he  had 
planned. 


104  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

"Three  fourths  of  the  National  Guardsmen  have 
no  business  in  this  thing/'  he  said.  "They  are  mar 
ried  men  with  families  dependent  upon  them.  In 
the  regiment  of  a  cousin  of  mine,  in  his  company, 
his  top  sergeant,  an  Irishman,  a  mechanic,  quits 
$100  a  month,  and  his  family  will  have  to  try  and 
live  on  $30.  Another  chap  has  $85  a  month,  three 
children,  and  a  wife.  They  must  live  on  $16  a  month 
and  his  job  is  gone. 

"Take  a  captain  in  this  command,  another  Irish 
man,  McCoy,  who  used  to  play  football.  He's  been 
very  successful  as  a  lawyer  and  is  earning  $18,000 
or  so  a  year.  On  his  docket  are  fifty-two  cases.  Now 
the  fifty-two  cases  must  go  elsewhere  and  Mrs. 
McCoy  will  have  $3500  to  do  on  instead  of  $18,000. 
It's  a  question  whether  or  not  he  will  ever  get  his 
practice  back.  There  are  dozens,  scores,  hundreds 
of  such  cases.  It  is  all  wrong  —  it  throws  too  much 
of  a  load  where  it  does  not  belong. 

"  Now  if  we  had  universal  military  service  the  men 
to  go  would  be  the  unmarried  fellows  of  eighteen 
to  twenty-eight  —  poor  man's  son,  rich  man's  son, 
the  grocer's  lad,  and  the  millionaire's  boy.  Quentin 
would  be  the  representative  of  this  family.  How 
much  better  that  would  be! 

"A  single  man  can  always  get  along.  Loss  of  a  job 
is  nothing  to  him.  He  can  always  get  another  start. 


THE  DIVISION  105 

He  won't  be  hurt,  though  he  may  be  inconvenienced. 
It  is  nonsense  to  send  National  Guardsmen  of  this 
type  to  guard  the  border  —  it  is  all  wrong." 

"That  would  be  a  splendid  thing  to  let  me  print 
now/'  I  suggested. 

"No,  no  —  I  cannot  say  a  word  for  publication 
now.  Later  —  perhaps.  If  Wilson  is  wise  he  will  give 
me  a  commission." 

"How  can  he  do  that  under  the  law?"  I  asked, 
the  Colonel  being  past  the  age  limit  fixed  in  a  statute 
he,  as  President,  had  aided  in  placing  on  the  books. 

"How?  Has  n't  he  got  to  have  a  new  law  before 
he  can  raise  volunteers?" 

The  words  were  fairly  snapped  out.  It  was  the 
first  intimation  that  he  had  found  a  door  through 
which  he  might  enter  any  army  raised  for  service  in 
Mexico  or  Europe  with  the  division  he  had  in  con 
templation.  Something  had  been  printed  about  this 
—  just  enough  to  whet  the  public  interest. 

"We  are  getting  reports  from  here  and  there, 
Colonel,"  I  said,  "indicating  that  something  of  this 
sort  is  expected  of  you.  We  would  like  very  much  to 
be  able  to  send  out  something  definite." 

"Impossible,"  said  he.  "Don't  you  see  that  that 
would  at  once  result  in  three  things:  flooding  of  my 
mail  with  letters  from  men  wanting  to  join  and  im 
portunities  for  commissions  I  would  not  have  to 


io6  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

give;  all  the  cranks  in  the  world  sending  me  advice 
and  more  tangible  but  useless  things;  and  every 
editorial  wit  with  a  two-by-four  intellect  writing 
'near-bright'  editorials  about  'Roosevelt  Hogging 
the  Lime  Light'  --  'T.  R.  Seeking  the  Front  Page'? 
That  is  impossible! 

"If  there  is  a  call  for  volunteers  —  and  I  think 
there  will  be  —  I  shall  do  my  duty  to  the  fullest 
extent  permitted  me.  Until  then  I  want  to  be  allowed 
as  large  a  measure  of  privacy  as  possible.  I  want  to 
be  as  free  to  come  and  go  as  you  are." 

For  several  days  we  sought  to  get  permission  to 
print  the  story  of  his  proposed  Mexican  division. 
The  details  —  since  printed  —  we  knew.  We  also 
knew,  thanks  to  A.  Leonard  Smith,  of  the  "news 
paper  cabinet,"  who  was  born  in  the  army,  that  it 
would  not  be  formed  on  orthodox  army  lines,  having 
an  unusual  preponderance  of  cavalry  and  artillery, 
and  a  minimum  of  infantry;  that  it  would  be,  as  an 
officer  of  engineers  described  it  to  Smith  "a  reen- 
forced  division." 

"Colonel  Blank  was  at  our  place  to  dinner  last 
night,"  said  Smith.  "I  told  him  what  the  Colonel 
had  in  mind. 

"'Lord!'  said  he,  'that  thing  will  have  a  punch 
like  an  army  mule,  and  the  speed  of  a  cyclone.  If  it 
ever  gets  under  way,  it  won't  stop  this  side  of  the 


THE  DIVISION  107 

canal.  Once  started,  the  rest  of  the  army  won't  see 
it  for  dust.  Its  only  weakness  may  be  in  supply.' " 

"There  will  be  no  difficulty  on  that  score,"  the 
Colonel  said  when  this  was  repeated  to  him.  "Sup 
plies  will  come  through  all  right.  If  not,  the  men  I  '11 
take  along  will  see  that  they  do.  I  've  had  some  ex 
perience  getting  through  Quartermaster's  red  tape 
in  Cuba." 

As  the  Colonel  had  anticipated,  definite  though 
anonymous  statements  of  his  intentions  sent  many 
persons  looking  for  commissions.  Among  those  go 
ing  to  Oyster  Bay  was  Roosevelt's  one-time  Secre 
tary  of  War,  "Harry"  Stimson,  who  arrived,  un 
announced,  one  Sunday  afternoon. 

"What  is  it  you  want,  Harry?"  the  Colonel  asked 
after  exchanging  the  usual  greetings. 

"I  read  in  the  papers,"  said  he,  "that  you  were 
going  to  raise  a  division  for  service  in  Mexico.  I  also 
read  that  it  was  a  fake.  I  came  down  to  see  if  it 


was  so." 


"So!"  snapped  the  Colonel;  "of  course  it's  so. 
What  about  it;  what  do  you  want  to  do?" 

"I  came  to  see  what  I  could  do  to  help.  I'll  do 
anything." 

Thus  Stimson,  ex-Secretary  of  War,  joined  the  list 
of  men  notable  in  many  walks  of  life  who  were  to 
have  gone  with  Roosevelt  to  Mexico  had  he  been 


108  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

permitted  to  go.  To  Stimson,  who  knew  nothing  of 
the  plan,  he  read  the  roll,  as  it  were  —  "Bob" 
Bacon,  millionaire  banker  and  diplomatist;  "Jack" 
Greenway,  Yale  athlete  and  best  loved  of  the  Rough 
Riders;  Rear  Admiral  Cameron  McR.  Winslow; 
Seth  Bullock,  ex-sheriff  of  Dead  wood,  when  Dead- 
wood  was  new;  Thomas  C.  Desmond,  subway  and 
ship  builder;  and  Dan  Collier,  California  miner, 
among  those  not  on  the  regular  army  list.  As  for 
those  in  the  regular  establishment,  the  list  read  like 
a  roll-call  of  the  Army  Four  Hundred  —  Sheridan, 
Fitz  Lee,  Young,  Jackson,  Chaffee,  Mosby,  and 
Forrest,  to  name  a  few  of  them. 

"Are  you  going  to  arm  your  cavalry  with  sabres 
or  lances?"  Mr.  Stimson  asked. 

"Certainly  not,"  replied  the  Colonel.  "I'll  have 
no  time  to  teach  them  the  use  of  swords.  If  they 
require  any  hand  weapon  of  that  sort,  I  '11  give  them 
hatchets.  They  will  at  least  know  how  to  chop." 

No  public  announcement  was  made  of  his  plans  by 
Colonel  Roosevelt  until  July  4,  when,  speaking  to 
"my  fellow  townsmen,"  he  declared  his  purpose  of 
taking  some  of  them  with  him.  Any  detailed  state 
ment  he  barred  until  after  his  formal  application 
had  been  filed  with  the  War  Department.  Two  days 
later  he  gave  me,  for  the  group  of  newspaper  men 
assigned  to  Oyster  Bay,  permission  to  "let  it  drive." 


THE  DIVISION  109 

"Use,"  said  he,  "no  names  of  officers  now  in  the 
regular  establishment.  To  print  them  now  would  be 
to  embarrass  them.  This  is  a  pretty  vicious  Admin 
istration,  you  know.  Use  the  names  of  Stimson, 
Bullock,  and  the  other  civilians.  They  cannot  be 
damaged." 

The  Colonel's  hope  of  doing  anything  with  Mexico 
soon  evaporated.  Less  than  a  fortnight  later,  when 
he  asked  how  soon  the  correspondents  would  leave 
Oyster  Bay,  I  told  him  the  division  matter  would 
hold  them  there  awhile  longer. 

"It  will  not  permit  us  to  drop  you,"  he  was  told. 

"For  the  present  it  will.  We  won't  have  war  with 
Mexico.  This  man  will  never  declare  war  on  Mexico. 
The  only  way  that  war  will  come  will  be  by  Mexico 
declaring  war  on  us. 

"Later  on  as  election  draws  near  he  may  do  some 
thing,  but  —  bah! 

"He  is  impossible.  I  never  have  any  patience  with 
the  man  who,  after  his  toes  have  been  tread  upon, 
his  nose  tweaked,  his  face  slapped  and  spat  upon, 
turns  on  his  tormentor  and  says:  'Beware,  sir,  lest 
you  arouse  the  lion ! ' ' 

As  the  Colonel  anticipated,  the  Mexican  affair 
fizzled  out.  The  division  plans  remained  intact,  how 
ever,  preserved  for  use  against  the  enemy  for  whose 
benefit  they  were  first  drawn.  From  time  to  time 


no  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

changes  were  made,  until,  when  early  in  1917  it 
became  apparent  that  our  entrance  into  the  war 
could  not  be  much  longer  delayed,  they  were  again 
brought  out,  and  a  new  petition  to  the  War  Depart 
ment  for  permission  to  raise  and  equip  such  a  force 
was  prepared. 

Quietly  the  necessary  "paper  work"  of  a  division, 
enormous  in  itself,  was  done  under  the  direction  of 
experts,  money  without  limit  was  pledged  from  pri 
vate  purses  to  offset  any  delay  that  might  accrue 
from  temporary  lack  of  government  funds,  and  ten 
tative  arrangement  made  for  such  equipment  as  the 
War  Department  might  lack. 

"They  have  made  ready  for  nothing;  they  will  be 
short  of  everything,"  the  Colonel  said.  "We  will,  if 
we  get  the  necessary  permission,  be  ready  to  move 
quickly." 

On  February  2,  1917,  two  days  after  Germany 
announced  her  programme  of  "ruthless  submarine 
warfare,"  Colonel  Roosevelt  sent  a  renewal  of  his 
offer  to  raise  troops  to  Mr.  Baker. 

When  it  was  filed,  the  Colonel  was  scheduled  for 
a  trip  to  Jamaica  to  rest  up  a  bit.  This  trip  he  aban 
doned. 

"I  do  not  expect  to  get  what  I  ask  at  this  time," 
said  he,  "but  I  am  determined  to  use  every  effort  to 
get  the  necessary  permission.  I  shall  not  go  away, 


THE  DIVISION  in 

for  I  feel  that  I  should  stand  by.  Furthermore,  my 
letter  to  Baker  cannot  be  made  public  by  me,  and 
if  I  sailed  it  might  look  as  though  I  were  going  away 
at  a  time  when  I  should  stay  at  home  to  be  ready  if 
wanted.  So  I  shall  cancel  my  passage." 

"I  am  going  to  keep  at  this  thing,"  he  said  some 
days  later  when  it  became  apparent  the  War  De 
partment  would  be  in  no  haste  to  grant  his  request. 
"While  nothing  may  come  of  it  so  far  as  I  am  di 
rectly  concerned,  it  may  help  the  country.  It  is 
helping  the  country  by  arousing  the  interest  in  pre 
paredness.  But,  oh,  the  pity  of  it!  At  war,  and  the 
President  refuses  to  acknowledge  the  fact  and  make 
ready." 

Meantime  applications  for  permission  to  go  along 
with  the  Colonel  piled  in  from  all  sides,  and  from 
men  in  all  walks  of  life.  In  Congress,  Senator  Hard 
ing,  of  Ohio,  offered  an  amendment  tacked  on  the 
Army  Bill  which  would  permit  the  Colonel  to  raise 
a  force.  This  was  adopted  in  the  Senate,  but  hung 
fire  in  the  House. 

To  get  it  through  the  House,  it  was  suggested  to 
the  Colonel  that  the  one  hundred  thousand  or  more 
men  who  had  then  asked  to  be  enrolled,  be  told  to 
write  their  Congressmen  urging  its  adoption. 

"I  cannot  write  such  letters,"  the  Colonel  said. 
"It's  out  of  the  question." 


H2  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

This  was  admitted,  but  enough  was  thought  of  the 
idea  to  call  "  Bob"  Bacon  into  consultation  on  it.  Ba 
con  found  a  quieter  way  of  getting  the  desired  result. 

In  San  Diego  then  lived  Daniel  C.  Collier,  miner, 
banker,  real  estate  operator,  and  all-around  organ 
izer.  In  competition  with  the  Panama  Fair  in  San 
Francisco,  he  had  made  a  fair  in  San  Diego  a  big 
success  —  his  specialty  seemed  to  be  doing  difficult 
things.  Collier  was  of  those  who  were  to  have  com 
missions  in  the  division.  He  was  called  East,  told  of 
the  situation  in  Congress,  and  asked  to  "get  busy." 

He  did.  He  worked  so  quietly  that  none  of  the 
Washington  correspondents  noted  him  or  his  ac 
tivities.  The  night  before  the  House  voted,  he  left 
Washington,  hopeful  for  the  best,  but  fearing  he  had 
failed.  The  day  of  the  vote  I  met  him  en  route  to 
Oyster  Bay. 

"I've  just  heard  the  vote  and  am  feeling  pretty 
good,"  he  said,  "but  I  was  n't  at  all  sure  we  had  the 
votes.  Just  now  I  'm  not  sure  the  President  will  act 
under  it." 

This  also  was  Colonel  Roosevelt's  opinion. 

"The  vote,"  said  he,  "does  not  mean  that  I  am 
commissioned,  not  by  a  jugful.  It  does  open  the  door, 
but  that  might  have  been  opened  any  time  Mr. 
Wilson  wished  it  opened." 

The  adoption  of  the  Harding  amendment  served 


THE  DIVISION  113 

to  increase  the  flood  of  offers  of  men,  and  the  offices, 
opened  on  Fifth  Avenue  to  handle  the  correspond 
ence,  did  a  land-office  business.  Eventually,  as  is 
well  known,  the  Colonel  had  enough  volunteers  to 
fit  out  an  army  corps.  At  no  time,  however,  was  the 
Colonel  or  those  closest  to  him  over-sanguine. 

"I  hope  for  the  best,  but  fear  the  worst,"  the 
Colonel  told  me  more  than  once  as  the  days  went  on. 
"I  am  still  exchanging  letters  with  Mr.  Baker. 

"He  has  changed  his  position  so  rapidly  he  re 
minds  one  of  the  fly  wheel  of  an  engine.  But  the  dear 
little  fellow  is  not  to  blame.  He's  been  trying  to 
defend  a  bad  case." 

The  National  Government  taking  no  action, 
Charles  S.  Whitman,  then  Governor,  offered  to  aid. 
He  offered  to  make  the  Colonel  a  Major-General  in 
the  National  Guard  of  New  York,  this  on  the  theory 
that  once  he  was  in  the  Guard,  President  Wilson 
would  permit  him  to  go  with  it  into  the  national 
service.  The  Colonel  did  not  think  this  practical 
—  but  went  to  Albany  to  talk  it  over  with  the  Gov 
ernor.  He  returned  practically  convinced  that  the 
scheme  was  impracticable. 

"We  had  a  pleasant  talk,"  he  told  me,  "but  I 
doubt  if  anything  comes  of  it.  For  one  thing  I  do  not 
wish  to  be  under  obligation  to  Whitman.  If  he  does 
anything  for  me,  I  shall  have  to  do  something  for 


ii4  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

him  and  he's  wise  enough  to  realize  that.  There  is 
nothing  very  disinterested  in  Mr.  Whitman's  offer, 
but  I  do  appreciate  it  just  the  same." 

Meanwhile  men  who  had  sought  to  go  with  the 
Colonel  were  beginning  to  despair.  Many  wrote  in 
asking  what  they  should  do.  Among  these  was  one 
from  "Tom"  Desmond.  Desmond  had  lined  up 
three  thousand  engineers,  the  pick  of  the  thirty 
thousand  subway-diggers  then  working  in  New  York, 
this  thirty  thousand  in  turn  being  the  cream  of  the 
heavy  construction  men  in  the  world.  The  answer  to 
Desmond's  letter  was  the  vehicle  chosen  by  the 
Colonel  to  tell  all  that  it  was  their  duty  to  get  "over 
there"  any  way  they  could. 

As  originally  drafted,  this  letter,  which  now  hangs 
on  the  wall  of  Mr.  Desmond's  New  York  office, 
admitted  final  and  complete  defeat.  Slaght  of  the 
"newspaper  cabinet"  pointed  this  out. 

"That  phrase,  '  It  is  to  me  a  matter  of  the  keenest 
regret  that  I  cannot  take  you  in  a  division  to  France,' 
is  an  admission  you  are  beaten,"  he  said. 

"Very  well,"  said  the  Colonel,  "your  point  is  well 
taken.  Let  us  see  how  we  can  avoid  destroying  the 
small  hope  you  think  may  remain." 

Consequently  the  letter,  on  the  original  of  which 
the  changes  plainly  show,  as  made  public  read:  "It 
will  be  to  me  a  matter  of  the  keenest  regret  if  I  can- 


THE  DIVISION  115 

not  take  you  in  a  division  to  France. "  The  change 
did  not  affect  the  advice  to  get  in. 

This  letter,  dated  May  9,  1917,  was  to  all  intents 
and  purposes  the  end  of  the  movement.  A  few  days 
later  there  were  gatherings  of  the  clan  at  Oyster  Bay 
and  in  the  New  York  offices  of  the  division.  To  these 
came  among  others  Seth  Bullock,  Jack  Greenway, 
John  M.  Parker  of  Louisiana,  "  Bob  "  Carey  of  Wyo 
ming,  "Dan"  Collier  of  California,  Sloane  Simpson 
of  Texas,  J.  L.  Reeves  and  H.  N.  Jackson,  teachers 
in  Norwich  College,  Vermont,  where  Dewey  studied, 
Hamilton  Fish,  Dr.  William  Jay  Schieffelin,  "  Bill  " 
Donovan  of  New  York,  "Dave"  Goodrich,  and 
others.  Never,  except  in  a  house  of  death,  have  I 
noticed  a  greater  air  of  depression.  All  except  the 
Colonel  showed  it  plainly.  He,  it  was  apparent  to 
those  who  knew  him  best,  felt  worse  than  any  other. 

"I  feel  like  hell  about  the  whole  thing,"  is  the 
way  Bullock  expressed  himself,  "and  so  do  the  rest 
of  us.  The  Colonel  feels  worst  of  all,  only  he's  too 
proud  to  let  on.  He  may  fool  some  of  you  boys,  but 
he  can't  fool  us.  We've  tried  to  tell  him  there  may 
be  some  way  out,  but  he  admits  he 's  licked  and  I 
figure  it  that  way  too.  So  I  guess  this  is  the  end. 
There  is  no  way  of  getting  around  the  President's 
announcement  that  he  won't  act  under  the  Harding 
amendment." 


n6  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

"We  must,  as  loyal  American  citizens,  bow  to  the 
decision  of  the  commander-in-chief  of  the  army  and 
navy,  the  President/*  said  the  Colonel,  "so  we  are 
releasing  everybody,  returning  the  money  that  has 
been  subscribed,  and  telling  every  one  to  get  in  as 
best  he  can." 

The  Colonel  was  far  from  thinking  he  had  failed 
entirely.  He  took  immense  satisfaction  in  a  Wash 
ington  despatch  to  the  Brooklyn  Eagle,  describing 
the  decision  to  send  troops  at  once  as  "a  compro 
mise"  between  the  original  plans  of  the  General 
Staff  which  called  for  no  early  movement  of  troops 
abroad,  and  the  request  of  the  Colonel  to  be  per 
mitted  to  take  troops  abroad.  The  despatch  bore  all 
the  ear  marks  of  being  "inspired." 

"If,"  said  the  Colonel,  "the  despatch  gives  the 
real  explanation  of  the  matter,  and  I  think  it  does, 
I  can  say  we  are  all  unselfishly  pleased  to  have 
served  this  use,  although,  naturally,  we  regret  not  to 
have  been  allowed  to  go  ourselves.  It  is  due  the  men 
that  the  full  facts  should  be  known. 

"  If  my  request  had  been  granted  the  various  units 
of  the  first  division  would  begin  to  assemble  to 
morrow  at  whatever  point  the  department  desig 
nates.  Personally  I  would  have  preferred  Fort  Sill, 
Oklahoma.  We  were  prepared  to  make  good  any  im 
mediate  lack  of  supplies.  In  fifteen  days  the  second 


THE  DIVISION  117 

division  would  have  begun  to  mobilize.  At  intervals 
of  thirty  days  the  others  would  have  mobilized.  At 
intervals  of  thirty  days  thereafter  the  commands 
would  have  been  ready  to  sail  for  intensive  training 
in  France.  All  could  have  been  on  the  firing-line  by 
September  i,  the  time  set  for  the  first  draft  to  be 
come  effective. 

"Under  the  'compromise'  men  go  abroad  earlier 
than  Mr.  Baker  had  intended  they  should.  The 
'compromise,'  therefore,  is  that  France  gets  men 
and  Roosevelt  stays  at  home.  That  is  not  entirely 
satisfactory  to  Roosevelt,  not  by  a  long  shot,  but  it 
is  something.  We  are  not  one  hundred  per  cent  loss, 
and  we  have  not  worked  in  vain." 

In  later  talks,  the  Colonel  insisted  that  "the  divi 
sion"  had  helped  improve  the  war  situation. 

"We  did  n't  get  over,"  he  would  say,  "but  we  did 
help.  Baker  has  had  to  do  everything  I  wanted  him 
to  do  and  that  he  said  could  not  be  done;  we  have 
troops  in  France  long  ahead  of  the  time  they  planned 
to  send  them;  we  have  helped  arouse  the  country. 

"It  is  the  regret  of  my  life  that  I  am  not  per 
mitted  to  serve.  Had  I  been,  they  would  have  no 
fear  of  political  glory  to  be  reaped  by  me,  for  I 
would  never  have  come  back.  Had  they  sense,  they 
would  have  known  that." 


THE  COLONEL  AND  JOHN  L.  SULLIVAN 

OLD  JOHN  L.  has  been  a  greater  power  for 
good  in  this  country  than  many  a  highly  re 
spectable  person  who  would  scorn  to  meet  him  on 
terms  of  equality.  He  has  been  my  friend  many 
years,  and  I  am  proud  to  be  his." 

That  is  where  John  L.  Sullivan,  once  champion 
pugilist  of  the  world,  stood  in  Colonel  Roosevelt's 
estimation. 

The  old  champion,  who  in  his  later  years  knew 
the  pinch  of  need,  had  come  to  New  York  to  see  the 
Colonel  and  had  an  hour  of  his  time  while  persons 
of  real  political  and  social  importance  waited  in  an 
anteroom.  His  object  in  coming  was  to  offer  his  aid 
in  "getting  over"  the  Colonel's  division.  When  he 
left,  it  was  to  return  to  Boston  to  hold  a  mass  meet 
ing  in  Faneuil  Hall  to  protest  against  delay  in  the 
granting  of  the  necessary  permission  to  begin  re 
cruiting. 

"I  can't  do  much,"  he  said,  "but  I  guess  we  can 
rock  old  Faneuil  Hall  just  to  show  that  Boston's 
heart  is  still  in  the  right  place." 

"  It  was  mighty  decent  of  old  John  L.  to  come  over 
to  see  me,"  said  the  Colonel  after  the  meeting.  "He 
wants  to  help.  I  more  than  half  suspect  he  needs 


T.  R.  AND  JOHN  L.  SULLIVAN          119 

help  himself,  but  I  would  not  for  the  life  of  me  insult 
him  by  even  a  hint  of  an  offer.  Old  John  has  many 
excellent  qualities  including  a  high  degree  of  self- 
respect.  He  also  has  a  large  measure  of  native  ability. 
I  know  that  his  former  profession  is  not  a  very  ex 
alted  one,  but  he  was  a  fair  fighter,  he  never  threw 
a  fight,  and,  in  his  way,  he  did  his  best  to  uphold 
American  supremacy.  Do  you  remember  his  little 
speech  when  Corbett  defeated  him  —  gratification 
that  it  was  an  American  who  whipped  him? 

II  John's  best  fight,  however,  was  made  after  he 
lost  to  Corbett.  I  mean  his  whipping  John  Barley 
corn.  That  was  a  real  victory,  and  I  am  proud  of  him 
for  having  made  it.  Since  then  I  believe  he  has  been 
the  most  effective  temperance  lecturer  I  have  known 
of.  He  has  been  effective  because  he  could  appeal  to 
classes  of  men  and  boys  others,  however  gifted,  could 
never  hope  to  reach.  His  hold  on  the  public  has  been 
longer  maintained  than  any  other  champion  I  ever 
heard  of.  Men  and  boys  would  go  to  hear  him,  and 
the  old  fellow's  honesty  was  convincing.  I  like  John 
for  this  contribution  to  good  citizenship. 

II 1  admired  him  in  his  prime.  He  was  a  good  fighter 
and  clean.  I  liked  his  willingness  to  meet  all  comers 
as  fast  as  they  came.  This  marked  the  real  champion 
and  explains  why,  in  defeat,  he  is  still  a  popular  idol. 

''John  is  an  old  friend.  He  used  to  call  at  the 


120  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

White  House  occasionally  just  as  he  sometimes  calls 
at  Sagamore  Hill.  Once  he  called  at  the  White  House 
on  a  personal  matter  —  he  told  my  secretary  it  was 
personal  and  I  saw  him  at  once.  After  we  had  shaken 
hands,  he  laid  a  heavy  black  cigar  on  the  desk. 

'"Have  a  cigar,  Mr.  President,'  he  said. 

"I  told  him  I  did  not  smoke. 

'"Have  another  —  give  'em  to  a  friend,'  he  re 
plied,  laying  another  on  the  desk. 

"The  social  amenities  having  been  attended  to,  I 
asked  what  I  could  do  for  him. 

"I  come  to  see  you  about  a  nephew,'  said  he, 
'my  favorite  nephew.  He  is  in  the  navy  and  in 
trouble.' 

"John  explained  that  he  had  enlisted  in  the 
Marines,  got  into  trouble  of  some  sort,  and  deserted, 
for  which  he  was  sentenced  to  a  dishonorable  dis 
charge. 

"'Now,  Colonel,'  said  he,  'that's  something  we 
can't  have.  We  don't  want  anything  like  that  in  our 
family.  He's  a  good  boy,  Colonel,  just  a  trifle  wild. 
I  wish  you  could  have  him  in  hand  a  little  while. 
You  'd  fix  him. 

"It's  a  tough  case,  too,  Colonel,'  he  went  on. 
'Here's  this  boy,  my  favorite  nephew;  I've  done 
everything  for  him,  but  he  does  n't  do  anything  for 
himself.  Why,  he  even  went  and  took  up  music/ 


T.  R.  AND  JOHN  L.  SULLIVAN         121 

"John  did  not  explain  whether  he  had  taken  up 
violin  or  barrel-organ,  but  he  left  no  doubt  that  he 
felt  this  was  beneath  the  Sullivan  dignity. " 

"What  became  of  the  boy,  Colonel?"  I  asked. 

"The  boy  was  all  right.  I  was  glad  to  do  what  I 
could  for  John.  Since  then  he 's  told  me  the  boy  has 
done  well.  I  failed  to  ask,  however,  if  he  persisted 
in  music." 

On  another  occasion  I  called  at  the  Harvard  Club 
by  appointment  to  get  the  news  of  the  day  as  re 
garded  the  "division."  The  Colonel  had  none. 

"I  have  had  but  two  visitors  to-day,"  he  said, 
"Archbishop  John  Ireland  and  John  L.  Sullivan, 
both,  as  you  know,  old  friends.  And  would  you  be 
lieve  it,  these  young  barbarians,  fresh  from  the  re 
fining  influences  of  my  venerable  Alma  Mater,  paid 
more  attention  to  the  pugilist  than  they  did  to  the 
prelate!  Had  they  known  that  John  Ireland  had  a 
record  as  a  first-class  fighting  man  in  the  army  and 
since,  it  might  have  been  different.  As  it  was,  to  talk 
straight  New  York,  they  'fell  for  the  fighter,  but 
could  n't  see'  the  man  of  the  Church. 

"  It  might  interest  you  to  know  that  old  John  and 
the  Archbishop  are  rather  good  friends.  Their  com 
mon  interest  is  temperance,  and  they  had  a  real 
good  chat.  John  thinks  the  Archbishop  is  all  right, 


122  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

and  the  Archbishop  respects  John's  good  qualities. 
Under  other  conditions  the  Archbishop  thinks  John 
might  have  made  a  splendid  churchman.  I  don't. 
John  was  intended  for  a  prize-fighter,  and  it  would 
have  been  too  bad  to  spoil  the  best  fighter  of  them 
all  and  make,  perhaps,  a  second-rate  clergyman, 
with,  probably,  less  real  power  for  good  than  old 
John  has  exercised.  I  told  His  Grace  this,  but  of 
course  he  could  not  be  expected  to  concede  as  much 
as  that.  He  does,  however,  think  well  of  John. 

"  Of  course  it  may  be  said  that  Sullivan  was  better 
than  his  profession.  This,  in  large  measure,  is  true. 
I  liked  old  Bob  Fitzsimmons,  but  as  a  man  he  was 
not  to  be  compared  to  Sullivan  —  he  had  the  fighting 
instinct  all  right,  but  he  lacked  Sullivan's  brain. 
Sullivan  has  had  little  more  schooling  than  Fitz,  but 
he  has  profited  more  by  his  travels  and  he  is  better 
informed  on  most  matters  than  most  men  who  have 
had  no  better  opportunity  in  school  work  than  he 
has  had 

"That,  however,  is  not  the  secret  of  his  holding 
his  own  with  the  public.  That's  to  be  explained  by 
his  rugged  honesty  and  the  fact  that  he  was  a  cham 
pion  who  was  always  willing  to  fight. 

"After  all,  there  is  a  lot  of  the  primal  man  in 
most  of  us." 


THE  NEWSPAPER  CABINET 

ALL  the  world  knows  of  the  Roosevelt  "Tennis 
Cabinet."  Few,  even  in  the  larger  newspaper 
offices,  knew  much  if  anything  of  the  Roosevelt 
"Newspaper  Cabinet." 

Occasionally  a  visiting  statesman  or  politician  re 
turning  from  Oyster  Bay  would  have  some  mention 
to  make  of  the  group  to  which  he  had  been  intro 
duced  by  the  Colonel  or  marvel  at  the  freedom  with 
which  the  Colonel  discussed  matters  of  the  gravest 
importance  with  what  one  Senator  called  "news 
hounds."  Sometimes  a  managing  or  city  editor,  or  a 
magazine  editor,  would  hear  something  of  it  and  try 
to  get  the  story,  but  none  ever  succeeded.  Those 
within  the  circle  would  not  write  it,  and  those  with 
out  could  not. 

Being  refused  a  story  is  no  novelty  to  most  edi 
tors.  The  "cabinet,"  however,  was  a  real  novelty  to 
many  of  the  Colonel's  visitors. 

"I  can  readily  understand  the  Colonel  or  any 
other  man  having  a  man  on  a  paper  especially 
friendly  to  him  from  whom  he  would  keep  very 
little,"  said  a  member  of  Congress  leaving  "  the  hill " 
one  afternoon,  "but  I  cannot  understand  his  talking 


124  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

so  freely  to  so  many  reporters.  Of  course  I  know 
T.  R.  knows  his  business,  but  — " 

"These  men  you  met  to-day  are  all  old  friends 
of  the  Colonel;  he  knows  they  would  not  turn  on 
him,"  I  said.  "For  that  matter  if  one  became  in 
clined  to  do  so,  he  would  not  dare  break.  It  would 
finish  him  professionally,  or  come  so  near  to  it,  he 
would  be  most  uncomfortable.  You  see  he'd  have 
not  only  the  Colonel  to  deal  with,  but  his  associates 
as  well." 

"I  understand  that,"  he  answered,  "but  this  is 
what  I  do  not  understand:  In  that  group  to-day 
there  was  a  Hearst  man  (William  Hoster)  and  a 
World  man  (John  W.  Slaght).  Hearst  I  know  hates 
the  thought  of  Roosevelt.  We  all  know  the  Colonel 
has  been  as  bitter  toward  Mr.  Pulitzer  as  the  World 
in  turn  has  been  against  him.  Now,  how  can  he  feel 
safe  with  those  men  in  what  he  calls  '  the  cabinet'? " 

"That  is  easy  to  answer,"  I  said.  "  Hoster,  of  the 
American,  is  the  one  man  in  the  Hearst  organization 
who  can  always  get  to  T.  R.  and  whom  he  trusts 
implicitly.  Slaght,  of  the  World,  has  been  his  friend 
since  he  was  Police  Commissioner  or  thereabouts. 
In  the  bitterest  days  of  the  Panama  Canal  contro 
versy,  Slaght  had  his  confidence,  and  was  persona 
grata.  The  World  knew  this,  understood  it  perfectly, 
and  never  expected  Slaght  to  do  anything  incom- 


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THE  NEWSPAPER  CABINET          125 

patible  with  his  self-respect.  Had  he  done  so,  it 
would  have  fired  him. 

"So  Hoster  sits  in,  and  Slaght,  as  you  saw  to-day, 
is  on  the  closest  terms  with  the  Colonel." 

"But  there  were  things  said  to-day  that  the  World 
would  give  much  for.  Is  n't  it  Slaght's  duty  to  turn 
that  stuff  in?  " 

"Not  at  all.  He's  there  as  the  Colonel's  friend; 
what  he  knows,  unless  it  is  otherwise  agreed,  is  not 
to  be  printed  and  that  settles  it." 

"But,"  the  Congressman  persisted,  "of  what 
value  is  that  to  the  World?1' 

"Of  this  value:  Slaght  at  all  times  knows,  or  is  in  a 
position  to  know,  the  facts  in  any  matter  the  Colonel 
may  be  interested  in.  This  enables  it  to  avoid  serious 
error  that  other  papers  sometimes  fall  into.  It  also 
leaves  it  in  a  position  to  know  what  to  look  for.  In 
a  word,  it  is  insurance  against  error  and  a  guarantee 
that  it  will  be  in  a  position  to  intelligently  handle 
any  story  that  may  arise  as  well  as  prepare  for  things 
in  the  future.  The  Colonel  on  his  part  does  not  object 
to  this.  He  would  rather  have  the  front  page  than 
the  editorial  page  any  day,  and  he'd  rather  have  a 
friendly  pen  deal  with  him  in  a  paper  editorially  un 
friendly  than  one  neutral  or  unfriendly." 

"You  say  it  well,"  said  the  Congressman,  "but  if 
you  ever  mention  me  to  the  Colonel,  tell  him  I  mar- 


126  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

vel  at  this  arrangement.  To  most  men  it  would  be 
suicidal.'* 

I  did  mention  the  conversation  to  the  Colonel  the 
next  day  as  we  sat  in  the  library. 

"He  means  all  right,"  he  said,  "but  he  does  not 
understand.  He 's  not  the  first  man  to  doubt  the  wis 
dom  of  having  Jack  Slaght  about.  Jack  is  pure  gold 
—  a  bit  querulous  at  times,  but  always  trustworthy. 
I  Ve  told  Slaght  many  a  thing  he  could  have  sold  for 
ten  thousand  dollars,  but  I  never  thought  he'd  sell 
it  and  I'm  sure  he  did  not.  I  have  not  held  him 
responsible  for  what  the  World  might  say  about  me 
any  more  than  Pulitzer  held  him  responsible  for 
what  I  said  about  the  World. 

"What  our  friend  does  not  appreciate  is  that  'the 
cabinet'  is  a  picked  crew.  It's  as  valuable  to  me  — 
more  so  —  than  I  am  to  it." 

As  the  Colonel  said,  "the  cabinet"  was  made  up 
of  picked  men.  They  were  the  survivors  of  the  army 
of  reporters  who,  beginning  in  the  days  when  Oyster 
Bay  sported  one  or  two  rickety  horse  cabs  and  only 
one  telephone,  had  driven  up  the  slope  of  Sagamore 
Hill.  Of  these,  many  called  but  once  or  twice.  Others 
had  gone  into  other  callings  —  notably  Robert  E. 
Livingston,  of  the  Herald,  and  Edward  G.  Riggs,  of 
the  Sun,  dean  of  all  political  reporters;  others  had 
passed  on.  Of  the  many,  there  were  a  few  upon  whom 


THE  NEWSPAPER  CABINET          127 

their  papers  depended  for  all  Roosevelt  matters,  men 
who  at  various  times,  mainly  during  campaigns  and 
in  the  summers  when  Oyster  Bay  was  the  National 
Capital,  had  been  stationed  there.  Gradually  other 
newspaper  men  began  to  lean  on  these,  the  more  so 
as  in  his  later  years  the  Colonel  sought  (in  vain,  to 
be  sure)  that  private  life  he  hoped  would  be  his  when 
he  left  the  White  House. 

In  these  latter  days  not  every  reporter  could  see 
the  Colonel.  This  was  due  as  much  to  the  fact  that 
many  were  sent  to  him  on  what  he  called  "fool 
errands "  as  to  the  desire  for  a  little  privacy.  Many 
of  those  who  did  see  him  found  him  not  at  all  respon 
sive.  The  exact  truth  is,  popular  opinion  to  the  con 
trary,  Colonel  Roosevelt  was  not  a  publicity-seeker. 
When  he  had  anything  to  say  he  said  it,  but  he  did 
not  grant  one  in  a  thousand  of  the  interviews  sought 
from  him.  In  the  closing  years  "no  interviews"  was 
his  rule,  a  rule  seldom  broken. 

Under  these  conditions,  even  in  the  last  campaign 
(1916),  the  number  of  newspaper  men  persona  grata 
at  Sagamore  Hill  was  limited.  In  this  group  were 
Slaght  and  Hoster  above  mentioned;  Rodney  Bean, 
of  the  New  York  Times,  whose  place  was  later  taken 
by  A.  Leonard  Smith ;  Phil  Thompson,  resident  cor 
respondent;  Perry  Arnold,  of  the  United  Press;  Ed 
Moier,  of  the  Associated  Press;  Napoleon  Alexan- 


128  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

der  Jennings,  of  the  Herald,  and  Charles  Divine  of 
the  Sun,  whose  place  was  later  filled  by  Thoreau 
Cronyn.  These,  with  myself  and  with  Colonel  Mi 
chael  E.  Hennessey,  of  the  Boston  Globe,  as  a  non 
resident  member,  made  up  the  cabinet.  At  times 
other  newspaper  men  for  whom  some  one  or  all  of 
the  group  could  vouch,  or  from  other  cities,  would 
sit  in,  but  always  with  the  understanding  that  they 
would  be  guided  in  their  writing  by  what  the  others 
would  advise. 

"  These  gentlemen  understand  me  perfectly, "  he 
would  say  to  the  stranger,  "and  they  know  what  is 
permissible  to  print.  Just  consult  with  them  and  you 
will  be  all  right. 

"Now  we  will  discuss  this  matter  in  cabinet,"  he 
would  go  on.  "When  we  are  through  we  will  decide 
what  if  anything  can  be  printed.  I  'm  not  sure  that 
we  will  want  to  print  anything,  but  you  want  the 
facts  for  your  guidance." 

This  would  be  the  start  of  a  discussion  of  some 
matter  in  the  news  or  likely  to  be  in  the  news.  In  the 
course  of  this,  the  Colonel  would  be  most  frank,  par 
ticularly  if  there  were  no  strangers  present  whom  he 
had  not  tested  out.  On  their  part  the  correspondents 
would  be  equally  frank  in  their  criticisms  and  sugges 
tions,  and  in  offering  bits  of  information  bearing  on 
the  subject  in  hand. 


THE  NEWSPAPER  CABINET          129 

"All  right,"  the  Colonel  might  say  as  the  discus 
sion  ended,  perhaps  at  the  stroke  of  the  dinner  gong, 
"  take  this  down  and  we  will  see  how  it  sounds," 
and  proceed  to  dictate  a  statement. 

"This"  might  sound  all  right  and  it  might  not; 
changes  of  a  word  here  and  there  would,  as  likely 
as  not,  be  suggested,  and  when  each  had  had  his 
say,  the  Colonel  would  give  his  final  assent  to  pub 
lication.  Or  at  his  suggestion  the  matter  would  be 
held  up  indefinitely  —  the  entire  talk  being  held  as 
"in  cabinet." 

The  visiting  reporter  who  really  knew  his  business 
more  often  than  not  waited  at  the  little  Oyster  Bay 
Inn  for  the  "cabinet"  to  return,  confident  that  a 
franker  discussion  might  result  if  he  were  not  pres 
ent,  and  that,  under  the  rules,  he  would  get  every 
thing  printable,  though  he  might  not  get  all  that  was 
said. 

So  far  as  I  know  but  one  man,  who  must  be  name 
less  in  his  shame,  ever  outraged  this  hospitality  of 
the  Colonel.  He  did  it  once.  Before  he  could  again 
visit  "the  hill,"  he  was  notified  not  to  return.  The 
offence  was  flagrant  and  indefensible.  Not  long  after 
the  man  retired  from  newspaper  work  to  write  fic 
tion.  His  successor,  an  old  friend  of  the  Colonel,  was 
heartily  welcomed,  but  stopped  abruptly  when  he 
started  to  apologize  for  what  had  happened. 


130  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

"You  need  not  apologize  for  your  office  and  you 
cannot  apologize  for  him,"  said  the  Colonel.  "You 
come  in  on  the  most  favored  nation  basis.  While  I  'm 
rather  sorry  for  the  poor  fool  —  he 's  more  fool  than 
crook  —  I  'm  glad  his  going  has  sent  you  here." 

The  unexpected  result  of  one  cabinet  meeting  was 
the  basis  of  the  charge,  oft  repeated  by  men  not  in 
the  newspaper  world,  or  if  in,  not  of  it,  that  it  was 
the  Colonel's  habit  to  repudiate  interviews  and  state 
ments  if  it  was  to  his  benefit  to  do  so.  Such  a  practice 
could  not  long  obtain  with  Colonel  Roosevelt  or  any 
other  public  man,  however  dishonest,  and  Colonel 
Roosevelt  was  basically  and  intrinsically  honest  in 
all  things. 

At  the  meeting  in  question,  attended  by  repre 
sentatives  of  the  morning  papers,  Colonel  Roosevelt, 
then  President,  took  up  the  question  of  the  Philip 
pine  friars,  at  that  time  very  much  in  the  news.  To 
the  men  present  the  Colonel  explained  conditions  in 
the  islands  as  shown  by  reports  from  men  in  and  out 
of  office,  making  the  point  that  the  situation  would 
clear  up  easier  if  the  Roman  Catholics  of  the  United 
States,  and  for  that  matter  the  rest  of  the  world, 
had  competent  knowledge  of  the  facts. 

These  facts,  he  proceeded  to  develop,  were  that 
the  Philippine  friar  as  he  then  existed  was  at  no 
time  to  be  mentioned  in  the  same  breath  as  the 


THE  NEWSPAPER  CABINET          131 

Roman  Catholic  clergy  in  the  United  States.  Were 
this  generally  understood,  even  by  the  clergy  here, 
he  said,  the  situation  would  be  easier  to  clear  up  to 
the  satisfaction  of  all.  Illustrating  these  statements, 
Colonel  Roosevelt  cited  various  cases  that  showed 
the  friars  in  some  instances,  at  least,  to  be  a  highly 
undesirable  lot.  At  the  same  time  he  was  careful  to 
point  out  that  not  all  of  the  Philippine  clergy  were 
"tarred  with  this  stick,"  paying  a  high  compliment 
to  the  Archbishop  of  Manila  and  others  to  whom 
the  charges  against  the  friars  would  not  apply. 

All  this,  it  was  stipulated,  was  not  for  publication. 

That  evening  after  dinner  the  morning  paper  men 
to  whom  the  Colonel  had  made  this  story  sat  on  the 
porch  of  the  little  Oyster  Bay  hotel  and  discussed 
the  meeting  of  the  afternoon.  First  one  statement, 
then  another  of  the  Colonel's  was  taken  up;  this 
point  and  that  analyzed  and  emphasized;  some  of 
the  Colonel's  stories  were  repeated.  Unknown  to 
these  men,  the  local  man  for  an  evening  paper  was 
sitting  near  by  in  the  shadow.  While  they  talked,  he 
took  mental  notes,  and  when  they  retired  for  the 
evening  card  game,  he  retired  to  put  the  story  on 
paper.  The  next  evening  practically  everything  the 
Colonel  had  said  was  printed  in  interview  form  in 
his  journal. 

As  might  have  been  expected,  the  result  was  a 


132  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

sensation.  From  one  end  of  the  country  to  the  other 
came  calls  for  a  verification  of  the  interview  or  more 
on  the  same  lines.  The  morning  paper  men  had  tele 
phone  calls  for  explanations.  They  could,  under  the 
circumstances,  do  nothing  but  denounce  the  inter 
view. 

Meantime  the  Colonel  was  busy.  To  Sagamore 
Hill  the  correspondent  of  the  morning  edition  of  the 
paper  printing  the  story  was  called.  He  explained 
that  he  knew  nothing  of  the  matter,  that  he  had  no 
connection  with  the  evening  edition  and  had  not 
talked  with  any  one  on  it. 

"I  am  glad  to  know  that,"  the  Colonel  told  him; 
"  it  is  as  I  thought.  I  shall  have  to  repudiate  the 
interview,  for  I  made  no  such  talk  to  whoever  wrote 
that  article,  and  to  nobody  for  publication.  It  was, 
as  you  know,  entirely  in  confidence.  I  have  talked 
this  matter  over  with  no  one  from  that  paper  and  I 
shall  say  so." 

This  he  did,  and  when  the  full  facts  developed, 
there  was  neither  resentment  nor  criticism  in  news 
paper  circles.  Nor  was  there  any  sympathy  for  the 
young  man  who  found  himself  repudiated.  By  eaves 
dropping  he  had  placed  himself  in  a  position  where 
he  was  entitled  to  neither  courtesy  nor  considera 
tion  ;  he  knew  or  should  have  known  that  he  was 
listening  to  a  discussion  of  a  confidential  matter.  So 


THE  NEWSPAPER  CABINET          133 

far  as  the  Colonel  was  concerned,  he  was  entirely 
within  his  rights  and  the  truth  in  denying  the  au 
thenticity  of  the  interview. 

I  have  in  the  course  of  many  years  tried  to  find 
the  basis  for  the  charge  that  Colonel  Roosevelt  was 
ever  unfair  to  the  interviewer.  The  foregoing  is  the 
only  incident  I  have  been  able  to  find.  On  this  slen 
der  foundation  of  fact  the  elaborate  structure  of 
misstatement  was,  I  am  sure,  built. 

There  were  times  when,  in  order  to  keep  out  of  the 
newspapers,  Colonel  Roosevelt  gave  orders  that  all 
newspaper  men  be  barred  from  "the  hill."  The  few 
to  whom  these  orders  did  not  apply  came,  not  as 
newspaper  men,  but  as  friends. 

One  occasion  on  which  such  an  order  issued  was 
immediately  after  Judge  Hughes  was  nominated. 
Calling  the  correspondents  then  on  duty  at  Oyster 
Bay,  including  a  majority  of  "the  cabinet,"  the 
Colonel  told  them  they  must  not  call  any  more ;  that 
he  was  once  more  a  private  citizen  and  must  be 
treated  as  such.  They  protested  that  this  could  not 
be;  that  the  public  clamored  for  news  of  him,  and 
their  papers,  anxious  to  meet  the  demand,  would  not 
consent  to  recalling  them. 

It  was  of  no  use  for  Colonel  Roosevelt  to  explain 
that  by  remaining  in  the  limelight  he  would  injure 
Judge  Hughes's  chances;  that  he  did  not  propose  to 


i34  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

do  this,  and  that  by  remaining,  the  boys  would 
only  embarrass  him.  An  impasse  developed,  in  con 
sequence  of  which  the  correspondents,  barred  from 
"the  hill,"  picketed  the  estate  and  the  Oyster  Bay 
station,  planning  in  this  way  to  get  lines  on  the 
Colonel's  political  visitors  and  on  what  he  was  doing 
in  a  political  way. 

This  was  the  situation  when  I  arrived  at  Oyster 
Bay  from  Chicago.  The  men  at  the  station  told  me 
Sagamore  Hill  had  been  closed  to  them  as  reporters. 

"T.  R.  was  very  nice  about  it,"  they  said,  "but 
he  said  that  while  he  would  welcome  us  older  men 
as  friends,  he  would  have  no  welcome  for  us  as 
reporters." 

On  the  theory  that  being  fresh  from  the  conven 
tion,  the  Colonel  would  not  object  to  my  calling,  I 
drove  to  Sagamore  Hill.  As  I  arrived,  James  R. 
Garfield,  of  the  "Tennis  Cabinet,"  and  another 
friend  were  leaving. 

"By  George!  this  is  fine,"  the  Colonel  exclaimed, 
introducing  me  to  Garfield,  whom  I  had  met  before, 
but  who  did  not  remember  me.  "You  can  trust  this 
man  absolutely,"  he  declared.  "He  is  one  of  the  salt 
of  the  earth,  if  salt  can  be  considered  plural.  I  am 
glad  you  came. 

"But,"  he  added  as  Garfield  left,  "you  know  I  am 
not  seeing  reporters.  Of  course  you  did  not  know  that. ' ' 


THE  NEWSPAPER  CABINET          135 

"Yes,  I  did,  Colonel,"  I  answered,  "but  I  thought 
you  might  possibly  wish  to  see  me,  and,  anyway,  I 
wished  to  tell  you  how  sorry  I  am  you  were  not 
named  and  to  say  good-bye." 

"That's  splendid  of  you,"  he  answered.  "Come 
into  the  library." 

In  the  library  John  McGrath  and  Walter  Hayes, 
his  secretaries,  were  waiting  with  a  mass  of  mail. 
Hayes  also  had  a  wire  from  Mrs.  Douglas  Robinson. 

"Now  what  do  you  think  of  that?"  the  Colonel 
demanded.  "My  sister,  you  know,  the  dearest  girl 
in  the  world,  but  ignorant  as  a  babe  on  politics. 
Thinks,  I  suppose,  the  world f s  going  to  come  to  an 
end  because  I  was  not  nominated.  Hayes,  try  and 
get  her  to  come  out  with  Mr.  Robinson.  She  wants 
to  console  me,  and  I  shall  have  to  console  her  and 
explain  that  nothing  awful  has  happened  me." 

I  at  once  took  up  the  matter  of  the  embargo. 

"The  station  is  picketed,"  I  explained.  "  I  am  sorry 
to  say,  too,  that  some  of  the  boys  have  elected  to 
picket  the  foot  of  the  hill.  It  should  be  possible  to 
make  some  arrangement  more  pleasant  all  around." 

I  mention  this  incident  in  answer  to  those  who 
have  pictured  Colonel  Roosevelt  as  stubborn  and 
unreasonable  and  difficult  to  advise. 

"I  noticed  the  pickets,"  said  he,  "and  I  did  not 
like  to  see  them.  But  really  there  is  no  use  in  their 


136  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

coming  here  for  news.  I  wish  to  be  treated  as  any 
other  private  citizen." 

"Yes,  Colonel,"  said  I,  "you  know  and  I  know 
that,  but  the  public  refuses  to  consider  you  a  private 
citizen  and,  frankly,  you  are  not;  at  least  not  yet." 

"All  right,  then,  let  us  fix  it  this  way.  Let  one  of 
you  elder  members  of  the  cabinet  come  up  here  each 
evening.  I  will  tell  him  the  news,  but  it  must  not  be 
printed  as  coming  from  me.  There  will  be  times  when 
you  will  not  wish  to  print  the  names  of  all  my  callers. 

"For  example,  I  was  sorry  yesterday  to  see  that 
the  boys  said  Leonard  Wood  called.  With  this  Ad 
ministration  lying  awake  nights  for  a  chance  to 
break  him  and  deprive  him  of  his  livelihood  —  Wood 
is  rather  too  old  to  start  in  another  line  now  —  it 
would  be  easy  to  get  him  into  trouble.  You  boys, 
I  know,  would  regret  that;  you  would  not  intention 
ally  get  any  decent  citizen  into  trouble. 

"Will  that  arrangement  be  satisfactory?" 

I  said  it  would,  and  the  new  arrangement  went 
into  effect  at  once,  the  first  call  being  planned  for 
the  next  night  when  I  was  to  meet  him  in  the  Hotel 
Langdon,  his  New  York  City  home. 

I  found  him  there  looking  tired  and  flushed  after 
a  hard  day  in  the  city,  and,  I  thought,  reaction  from 
the  strain  of  the  convention.  Of  news  he  had  none. 
The  next  day  we  learned,  when  a  physician  was 


THE  NEWSPAPER  CABINET          137 

called  to  attend  him  on  a  pier  whither  he  had  gone 
to  welcome  Kermit  home,  that  he  was  ill.  It  was 
explained  he  had  strained  some  tendons  on  his  left 
side  coughing. 

On  the  following  day  several  physicians  looked 
him  over  and  we  learned  he  had  a  light  attack  of 
dry  pleurisy.  At  his  request  I  called  at  the  hotel  that 
evening. 

"  I  Ve  sent  for  you/'  he  told  me,  "  because  I  know 
the  boys  have  confidence  in  you  and  will  take  your 
word,  your  advice,  on  my  condition.  I  don't  want 
alarming  stories  in  the  papers.  If  you  could  fix  it, 
I  would  prefer  nothing  be  said,  but  I  know  you  can 
not,  and  perhaps  total  silence,  any  attempt  to  sup 
press,  would  be  the  worst  thing  I  could  do.  But  I 
don't  want  any  'Roosevelt  Critically  111'  headlines 
that  will  scare  my  friends  to  death.  I  'm  not  afraid 
of  the  boys'  reports,  but  it's  the  headline  fellows. 

"  All  the  trouble  I  ever  have  with  the  papers  is  of 
their  making.  Friends  come  to  me  and  say,  'Those 
reporters.'  But  it  is  n't  the  reporters.  Ninety-nine 
times  out  of  a  hundred  they  are  correct  to  a  'T." 

I  explained  that  the  boys  understood  perfectly; 
that  Slaght  had  taken  the  trouble  to  consult  one  of 
the  best  physicians  in  New  York,  Dr.  Charles  H. 
Goodrich,  of  Brooklyn,  and  been  told  by  him  that 
pleurisy  per  se  was  annoying  rather  than  serious. 


138  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

"That's  bully  of  Slaght.  Just  like  him.  Do  you 
know  he's  a  splendid  fellow?  Now  his  paper  hates 
me,  hates  me  bitterly.  But  Slaght  has  ever  been  uni 
formly  kind  and  courteous.  He 's  square  all  the  way 
up.  I  like  him,  he's  my  friend.  That's  one  thing  lots 
of  people  can't  understand,  why  I  have  anything  to 
do  with  a  man  placed  like  Slaght.  They  don't  know 
that  being  decent  is  not  dependent  on  one's  par 
ticular  position." 

I  told  the  Colonel  that  if  he  wished  I  would  see 
every  night  editor  in  town  —  the  boys  would  have 
gone  home  by  the  time  I  could  get  back  downtown 
-  but  I  advised  against  doing  so. 

"Ha,  ha,  'methinks  the  lady  doth  protest  too 
much/"  he  quoted.  "You  are  right  and  I  am  sorry 
to  have  troubled  you.  Truly,  I  will  be  glad  when 
people  will  recognize  me  as  a  private  citizen  and  the 
papers  treat  me  as  such." 

"That  time,"  I  replied,  "will  never  come  in  your 
life.  Twenty  years  from  now  if  I  am  alive  I  expect 
to  go  to  Oyster  Bay  now  and  then  on  a  T.  R.  assign 
ment." 

"That  is  just  it  —  your  city  editors  want  that 
sort  of  thing.  But  I  do  wish  —  and  I  say  this  in  all 
sincerity  —  I  wish  to  be  as  any  other  man  —  I  am 
in  private  life,  and  sooner  or  later  even  your  hard 
hearted  bosses  will  recognize  that." 


THE  NEWSPAPER  CABINET          139 

Three  days  later  the  Colonel  again  asked  when 
the  correspondents  would  leave  Oyster  Bay. 

"How  much  longer  do  you  boys  expect  to  be 
here?"  he  asked. 

"  On  a  guess,  ten  days  —  until  after  your  letter 
to  the  Progressive  National  Committee  is  made 
public." 

"Fine.  Then  I  shall  be  left  alone." 

"Colonel,  I  don't  think  so.  There's  one  thing  you 
don't  realize  —  the  biggest  tribute  yet  paid  you, 
but  unnoticed  by  you  and  about  every  one  else.  It 
is  the  presence  of  these  men." 

"I  don't  understand  you,"  and  he  looked  as 
though  he  suspected  I  thought  I  was  honoring  him 
by  calling. 

"  It  is  this.  Here  you  are  a  defeated  man.  You  are 
by  your  own  word  out  of  politics.  You  ask  to  be  left 
alone.  In  the  face  of  that,  the  New  York  papers  and 
the  great  press  associations  are  keeping  here  a 
stronger  force  than  is  with  Mr.  Hughes.  That's  not 
because  our  city  editors  are  crazy  or  hero-worship 
pers  or  particular  friends  of  yours.  It  is  because  they 
realize  the  hold  you  have  on  the  American  people. 
It's  the  tribute  of  the  people  to  the  man,  for,  after 
all,  we  only  give  the  public  what  it  wants. 

"I  have  never  seen  or  heard  of  anything  like  it 
in  my  twenty-five  years  in  the  newspaper  business. 


140  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

The  popular  cry  always  is,  'The  King  is  dead,  long 
live  the  King/  This  'King*  is  not  dead.  I  tell  you, 
the  people  are  with  you.  That  is  why  we  are  here." 

The  Colonel  listened  to  this,  the  longest  speech 
I  ever  attempted  on  him,  without  an  interruption 
—  something  unusual  when  one  was  tempted  to  be 
long-winded. 

"Leary,  I  thank  you,"  this  with  every  evidence  of 
being  touched.  "The  people  are  with  me  because 
they  know  I  am  the  one  man  in  America  who  stands 
for  a  definite  thing.  It's  the  thing  and  not  the  man." 

Ten  days  later  the  boys  began  to  leave  one  by  one, 
only  to  return  intermittently  or  call  at  his  New  York 
offices  the  days  he  would  be  due  in  town.  More  often 
than  not  they  secured  nothing  for  publication,  but 
they  were  glad  to  see  him,  and  he  them.  Between 
them  there  was  that  "common  interest "  he  some 
times  declared  to  be  so  necessary  to  enable  men  to 
work  together.  All  were  his  friends,  and  he  theirs. 

This  affinity  of  the  newspaper  men  for  Colonel 
Roosevelt  was  not  confined  to  New  York  members 
of  the  craft.  By  that  strange  freemasonry  obtaining 
in  the  profession,  reporters  in  San  Francisco,  Port 
land,  Maine,  and  way  stations  in  between,  knew 
they  were  sure,  if  the  occasion  ever  offered,  of  a  fair 
deal;  that  while  he  could  not  be  depended  upon  for 
the  desired  interview,  he  would  always  see  them, 


THE  NEWSPAPER  CABINET          141 

thereby  protecting  them  against  what  every  reporter, 
however  blase,  dreads  —  the  necessity  of  reporting 
failure  to  see  his  man. 

They  also  knew  he  would  protect  them  in  other 
ways;  as,  for  example,  at  a  dinner  given  him  by 
the  Illinois  Bar  Association.  To  it  journeyed  several 
members  of  "the  cabinet,"  only  to  be  barred  at  the 
last  moment.  The  meal  was  partly  served  when  the 
Colonel's  secretary,  McGrath,  told  him  about  it. 
Immediately  the  Colonel  arose  as  if  to  leave  the 
table,  declared  the  reporters  were  in  and  of  his 
party,  and  he  proposed  to  join  them  in  the  grill 
room  below  where  they  were  dining  a  la  carte. 

Join  them  he  did,  returning  to  the  banquet  hall 
only  after  the  spokesman  for  the  Association  apolo 
gized  for  the  slight  and  arranged,  not  only  for  the 
reporters  to  be  in  for  the  speech-making,  but  to  have 
a  special  supper  after  their  work  was  done.  To  this 
half  a  score  of  Chicago  reporters  were  bidden,  and 
the  Colonel  sat  at  the  head  of  the  table. 

Incidents  of  this  sort  made  every  reporter  assigned 
to  the  Colonel  a  Roosevelt  worshipper,  a  fact  that 
unfriendly  editors  complained  of  time  after  time. 
The  mere  changing  of  men  did  not  suffice  —  in  a 
few  days  the  new  man  was  as  unable  to  write  anti- 
Roosevelt  stuff  as  his  predecessor  had  been. 

Which  explains  the  dialogue  overheard  by  a  taxi- 


TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

driver,  taking  two  reporters  from  Sagamore  Hill  the 
day  its  master  left  it  on  his  last  journey. 

"Brace  up,  Phil,"  said  one;  "we'll  soon  be  in 
town.  Pull  yourself  together." 

"Shut  up,  you  damn  fool!"  blubbered  the  other; 
"you're  crying  just  as  hard  as  I  am." 


CHILDREN  OF  THE  CRUCIBLE 

THERE  must  be  radical  changes  in  our  immi 
gration  laws  and  in  our  treatment  of  the  immi 
grant  once  he  is  admitted.  The  "  melting-pot "  has 
not  proven  a  failure.  It  has  been  overloaded  and  it 
has  not  had  proper  attention.  We  have  been  too  care 
less  in  admitting  immigrants  and  we  have  not  done 
our  full  duty  by  them. 

"The  fault  is  ours  as  much  as  theirs  and  the 
troubles  we  are  now  having  are  a  consequence." 

Colonel  Roosevelt  was  speaking  of  the  famous 
appeal,  "  Children  of  the  Crucible,"  issued  in  Sep 
tember,  1917,  at  a  time  when  pacifists,  pro-Germans, 
defeatists  and  propagandists  of  other  types,  all  aim 
ing  to  slow  up  our  prosecution  of  the  war,  were  mak 
ing  substantial  progress  among  the  newly  arrived 
and  the  children  of  those  who  had  arrived  not  much 
earlier. 

"Jack,"  he  asked  by  way  of  introducing  the  sub 
ject,  "you  are  of  immigrant  stock,  are  you  not?" 

"Sure,"  said  I;  "I  might  be  described  as  being  of 
an  early  Cunard  family." 

"Quite  so.  Then  I  wonder  if  you  would  object  to 
my  putting  your  name  to  an  appeal  to  the  foreign- 


144  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

born  and  their  children  born  here  to  get  together 
under  the  flag  and  smash  these  agitators  who  are 
using  them  to  play  Germany's  game?  The  idea  is  to 
have  it  issue  in  the  name  of  men  of  all  races  and 
creeds." 

" I'll  sign  anything  you  stand  for,"  I  said. 

"  I  thought  you  would.  We  will  have  a  host  of  real 
names  on  it,  that  should  carry  some  weight.  What 
we  want  is  that  everybody  who  can  will  get  in  and 
behind  the  Vigilantes  —  that  anti-pacifist  group  of 
writers,  artists,  and  other  patriotic  citizens  who  are 
real  'children  of  the  crucible*  and  as  such  have  a 
right  to  expect  a  hearing  from  their  kind." 

11  There  is  an  opportunity  for  real  work  there,"  I 
said.  "  Between  the  anti-English  agitators  among  the 
Irish  and  agitators  of  all  sorts  on  the  East  Side,  a 
nasty  situation  has  been  created  that  may  spell  seri 
ous  trouble." 

"That  is  exactly  true.  It  may  well  develop  serious 
trouble  just  as  it  is  now  an  embarrassment  to  those 
of  us  who  wish  to  see  this  war  speeded  up.  It  is  part 
of  the  price  we  must  pay  for  lax  immigration  laws 
and  our  failure  —  our  cowardice,  if  you  wish  —  in 
declining  to  adopt  reasonable  restrictions.  Nothing 
has  happened  or  is  likely  to  happen  that  we  did  not 
have  a  right  to  expect. 

"It  has,  however,  been  impossible  to  make  our 


CHILDREN  OF  THE  CRUCIBLE       145 

people  see  this  or  to  make  the  friends  of  the  immi 
grant  see  that,  by  keeping  too  open  a  door,  we  were 
doing  no  real  kindness  to  the  mass  of  immigrants 
already  here.  Even  so  broad  and  enlightened  a  man 
as  Straus  [Oscar]  could  not  be  made  to  see  that.  He 
would  not  consent  to  restrictions  that  would  limit 
the  flow  here  from  Russia.  In  common  with  less  en 
lightened  and  selfish  persons  he  thought  the  situa 
tion  would  care  for  itself. 

"Now  it  has  not,  and  in  consequence  we  find  the 
East  Side  to  be  the  most  pro-German  section  of 
the  United  States,  not  even  excepting  Milwaukee. 
East-Siders  will  deny  that,  but  you  and  I  know  it  to 
be  the  fact  that  these  poor  people  are  being,  have 
been,  exploited  beyond  measure  by  those  who  have 
not  our  country's  interests  at  heart,  who  are,  in  fact, 
the  enemies  of  our  country. 

"This  is  as  much  our  fault  as  theirs,  first,  because 
of  our  failure  to  enact  and  enforce  reasonable  laws 
for  the  admission  of  the  immigrant  and  to  keep  out 
the  undesirable,  and  second,  because  by  neglecting 
the  immigrants  we  have  given  them  fertile  ground 
in  which  to  sow  their  damnable  doctrines.  What 
they  sow,  we  will  have  to  reap. 

"More  than  the  immediate  effect  on  the  war,  we 
must  realize  that  in  their  resentment  the  American 
people  may  set  up  an  anti-alien  wave  that  will  work 


146  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

untold  hardship  on  everybody  —  those  not  of  alien 
birth  or  blood,  but  on  the  whole  mass;  for  it  does  not 
make  for  common  comfort  or  safety  to  have  any 
considerable  element  in  the  community  proscribed 
by  the  others.  Of  course,  the  immediate  sufferers 
will  be  the  immigrants.  But  those  of  alien  stock  not 
immigrants  will  feel  it.  Resentment  of  this  Irish 
agitation  if  it  comes  will  probably  not  affect  you  seri 
ously,  for  your  position  is  secure,  but  you  will  feel  it 
and  your  boy,  when  he  gets  out  to  make  his  way, 
will  feel  it.  Make  no  mistake  about  that. 

"  Only  the  other  day  I  was  speaking  with  a  Jewish 
friend  about  this  East-Side  situation.  He  regrets  it 
as  we  do,  but  he  did  not  seem  to  see  where  he  and  his 
are  sure  to  be  hurt  if  these  agitators  succeed,  as  they 
seem  bent  on  doing,  in  making  the  term  Jew  syn 
onymous  for  pacifism,  pro-Germanism,  socialism.  He 
said,  and  said  very  truly,  that  the  Jewish  people 
should  not  as  a  whole  be  blamed  for  the  prominence 
of  Jewish  names  in  this  sort  of  thing.  What  he  did 
not  see  is  that  prejudice  and  bigotry  never  discrim 
inate.  If  the  bigot  ever  paused  to  discriminate,  he 
would  cease  to  be  a  bigot. 

"I  wish  to  see  nothing  like  race  proscription  in 
this  country,  but  we  ought  to  be  frank  with  our 
selves  and  recognize  that  under  the  surface  there  is 
considerable  anti-Semitic  feeling.  I  believe  it  was 


CHILDREN  OF  THE  CRUCIBLE        147 

you  who  told  me  the  Frank  case  in  Georgia  was,  in 
its  final  stages,  a  demonstration  of  it." 

"That  was  the  conclusion  Charley  [Charles  Willis] 
Thompson  and  I  were  forced  to  accept,"  I  said 

"Thompson's  a  shrewd  fellow  and  a  mighty  good 
one,"  the  Colonel  went  on.  "  If  he  said  that  was  the 
state  of  affairs,  I  'd  take  his  word  for  it. 

"Now  that  was  in  Georgia.  If  I  remember  rightly 
some  of  the  oldest  families  in  Georgia  are  Jewish  — 
one  of  Oglethorpe's  trustees  was  a  Jew,  whose  family 
is  still  prominent  in  affairs  of  that  State.  It  is  one  of 
the  last  places  one  would  naturally  look  for  that  sort 
of  thing.  Yet  the  seeds  must  have  been  under  the 
surface. 

"Our  Jewish  friends  share  with  us  who  are  non- 
Jewish  responsibility  for  any  success  these  creatures 
may  make  among  the  newer  Jewish  people  in  this 
country.  Like  the  rest  of  us,  they  have  assumed  that 
once  in,  the  immigrant  would  be  automatically  taken 
care  of  by  our  admirable  institutions  and  have 
neglected  him  and  left  him  to  his  own  resources. 
What  has  been  the  consequence?  The  immigrant  has 
been  and  is  being  exploited.  First  it  was  the  sweat 
shop.  That  is  largely  done  away  with.  Now  it  is  by 
these  political  agitators  —  the  Berkmans,  Goldmans, 
and  I  know  not  who,  including  some  persons  with 
American  names  and  some  claim  to  social  position. 


148  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

"What  we  should  have  done,  what  we  must  do,  is 
see  to  it  that  the  immigrant  is  taken  in  hand  and 
given  a  square  deal.  We  must  see  to  it  that  a  real 
effort  is  made  to  Americanize  him  —  he  should  have 
the  opportunity  to  become  Americanized.  He  should 
be  given  an  opportunity,  should  be  compelled  to 
learn  the  English  language,  and  if  at  the  end  of  a 
stated  period  he  has  failed  to  do  so,  he  should  be 
sent  back  to  the  place  from  which  he  came.  He  must 
not  be  left  to  the  agitator  and  the  demagogue  to 
exploit. 

"It  is  foolish  to  imagine  that  the  immigrant  will 
automatically  and  of  his  own  will  be  converted  into 
an  American  by  his  mere  presence  among  us,  so  long 
as  he  comes  here  in  masses,  and  settles  down  among 
his  own  kind,  as  ignorant  of  our  ways,  our  customs, 
and  our  institutions  as  he  is. 

"  Nor  is  it  right  to  criticize  the  immigrant  because 
he  forms  what  we  call  '  foreign '  colonies  in  our  cities. 
It  is  natural  that  he  should  seek  his  kind.  He  does 
exactly  what  Americans  do  when  they  go  abroad  and 
settle  in  London,  Paris,  Berlin.  Do  they  scatter? 
They  do  not.  They  form  colonies  just  as  distinct  as 
do  the  Russian  Jew,  the  Greek,  the  Armenian,  the 
Irish,  or  the  Germans,  or,  if  you  please,  the  Chinese; 
they  seek  their  kind.  We  should  see  to  it  that  their 
kind  becomes  our  kind.  We  won't  do  it  by  calling 


CHILDREN  OF  THE  CRUCIBLE        149 

them  names,  we  won't  do  it  by  maltreating  them, 
and  we  won't  do  it  by  neglecting  them. 

"Of  course,  while  the  war  lasts  we  will  have  no 
immigration  to  speak  of.  Automatically  the  war  has 
restricted  it.  For  a  time  after  the  war  ends  there 
may  be,  probably  will  be,  little  immigration. 

"Immigration,  however,  will  be  one  of  our  recon 
struction  problems.  It  will  have  to  be  handled  in  a 
big  way,  but  with  the  idea  that  America  comes  first, 
and  that  the  time  has  arrived  when  we  must  and  will 
be  more  particular  as  to  whom  we  admit  into  our 
house,  bearing  always  in  mind  that  we  owe  it  to  the 
alien  as  well  as  to  ourselves  to  see  to  it  that  he  has 
ample  opportunity  of  becoming  a  real  American. 

"All  Americans,  of  whatever  stock,  should  take 
the  position  toward  the  country  from  which  they 
sprang  that  Washington  and  his  associates  took 
toward  England.  They  were  English,  but  they  did 
not  hesitate  to  fight  England.  Against  them  were  the 
Tories,  the  first  pacifists  the  country  knew.  They 
were  against  fighting  England  just  as  the  man  of 
German  blood,  who  is  not  with  us,  is  against  fight 
ing  Germany,  and  of  a  piece  with  the  Irishman  whose 
hatred  of  England  is  greater  than  his  love  for 
America. 

"To  be  sure,  only  a  part  of  these  people  are  on  the 
wrong  course.  They  are  trying  to  mislead  the  rest. 


150  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

Some  are  honest,  but  misguided.  Some  are  palpably 
dishonest.  The  effect  is  the  same  in  each  instance. 
It  must  be  our  job  to  curb  them,  and  in  the  future 
so  conduct  ourselves  toward  the  immigrant  that 
others  of  their  kind  that  may  arise  later  will  have  less 
fertile  fields  to  work  in." 

Shortly  after  "  Children  of  the  Crucible  "  appeared. 
The  first  name  appended  to  it  was  that  of  Theodore 
Roosevelt. 


ROOSEVELT  ON  LABOR 

COLONEL  ROOSEVELT'S  position  on  labor 
was  peculiar  in  that  in  some  respects  he  was 
more  radical  than  Samuel  Gompers.  Like  Gompers 
he  had  no  use  for  a  "Labor  Party"  as  such,  and  to 
the  extent  that  he  favored  old  age  and  health  insur 
ance  he  went  farther  than  Mr.  Gompers  had  ever 
done.  To  the  extent  that  he  believed  labor  would 
get  the  best  results  by  working  with  the  existing 
parties,  he  and  Gompers  were  agreed. 

"The  difficulty  with  the  Labor- Party  idea,"  he 
declared,  "is  that  it  is  based  upon  a  false  premise. 
It  is  based  on  the  theory  that  the  interests  of  so- 
called  labor  are  different  from  the  interests  of  the 
community  as  a  whole.  That  is  a  foolish  doctrine, 
just  as  foolish  as  it  would  be  to  try  and  maintain 
that  the  interests  of  the  manufacturer  or  other 
employer  are  different  from  those  of  the  rest  of  the 
community.  It  is  entirely  a  selfish  and  wicked  doc 
trine,  and,  if  successful,  would  work  hardships  on 
labor  more  than  on  any  other  group  in  the  com 
munity." 

Colonel  Roosevelt  made  this  observation  while 
he  was  "mulling  over"  a  speech  on  after- the- war 
preparedness  he  proposed  to  deliver  in  Bridgeport 


152  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

at  a  " bye"  Congressional  election  in  the  fall  of  1917. 
The  death  of  Ebenezer  J.  Hill,  long  in  Congress  from 
that  district,  a  likable  old  " stand-patter,"  had  left  a 
vacancy  for  which  the  Republicans  had  nominated 
Schuyler  Merritt,  a  banker  and  manufacturer  of 
Stamford.  The  Colonel  was  asked  to  speak  there  and 
he  accepted,  with  the  idea  that  the  speech  might  be 
the  "keynote"  or  a  "keynote"  for  the  Congressional 
elections  a  year  later. 

"We  have  got  to  get  ready  for  after  the  war,"  he 
told  me.  "We  might  as  well  begin  now.  I  am  going 
to  speak  up  there  on  industrial  preparedness  as  much 
as  anything  else.  I  may  shock  some  persons  up  there, 
but  we  might  just  as  well  recognize  now  as  at  some 
later  time  that  something  must  be  done  for  labor. 

"There  are  a  great  many  business  men  who  seem 
to  be  of  the  opinion  that  once  peace  arrives,  pre-war 
conditions  will  return  overnight  as  it  were.  These 
are  as  short-sighted  as  the  labor  radicals  who  are 
declaring  that  abnormal  wages,  to  be  expected  in 
time  of  war,  will  have  to  prevail  when  peace  comes. 
Both  are  wrong,  and  are  paving  the  way  for  some 
very  serious  misunderstandings.  The  employers 
must  be  fair  and  reasonable;  the  reactionary  em 
ployer  is  no  better  than  the  extreme  radical  among 
the  union  men." 

"The  shrewdest  of  the  labor  men,"  I  told  him, 


ROOSEVELT  ON  LABOR  153 

"are  now  preparing  against  that  sort  of  thing.  For 
example,  William  H.  Johnson,  head  of  the  machin 
ists,  one  of  the  ablest  of  them,  whose  trade  has  prob 
ably  been  affected  more  than  any  other  by  the  war, 
is  privately  bending  every  effort  to  get  his  organi 
zation  into  as  good  shape  as  possible  for  the  recon 
struction  period." 

"Johnson  is  right.  He  has  keener  foresight  than 
a  lot  of  employers. 

"  There  are  going  to  be  disturbances,  but  these 
will  be  minimized  if  we  can  get  what  is  commonly 
called  labor  and  what  is  commonly  called  capital 
together  in  a  realizing  sense  that  their  interests  are 
identical,  and  that  the  problems  of  one  are  the  prob 
lems  of  all.  The  employer  has  no  more  right  to  hog 
all  the  profits  than  the  union  has  a  right  to  insist 
upon  wages  that  will  permit  of  no  profits.  Unless  the 
business  man  does  well,  the  laborer  won't,  because 
there  won't  be  labor  for  the  laborer  to  do. 

11  Sooner  or  later  we  have  got  to  come  to  some  sys 
tem  of  old-age  pensions,  proper  protection  against 
accident  and  disease,  more  particularly  the  occupa 
tional  disease,  and  we  have  got  to  insure  good  living 
conditions.  So  far  as  these  are  arranged  by  common 
consent  of  both  sides  and  the  community,  well  and 
good.  Where  they  cannot  be  thus  arranged,  the 
State  will  have  to  do  it.  This  will  not  appeal  to  some 


i54  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

of  our  friends  among  the  so-called  employing  classes, 
but  we  may  as  well  face  the  facts  squarely 

"Unless  all  history  is  valueless  as  a  guide,  we  are 
going,  sooner  or  later,  to  have  to  pay  for  the  enor 
mous  destructions  of  capital  in  this  war.  We  cannot 
hope  to  evade  some  period  of  depression.  How  severe 
that  will  be  depends  largely  upon  ourselves.  We  can 
not  avoid  it,  but  we  can  make  it  less  severe  than  it 
otherwise  might  be.  In  this  labor  and  capital  must 
work  together  —  must  realize  that  their  problems 
are  alike,  and  that  unless  the  employer  is  prosper 
ous,  the  employee  cannot  be.  Equally  so,  unless  the 
employee  is  treated  fairly,  the  employer  and  the 
community  cannot  be  prosperous.  The  partners  in 
the  enterprise  must  realize  their  responsibilities  to 
each  other  and  act  accordingly." 

Developing  this  thought,  Colonel  Roosevelt  went 
to  Bridgeport  where  the  local  reporters  were  mysti 
fied  by  his  failure  to  say  very  much  about  the  candi 
date.  Some  tried  to  read  into  this  lack  of  interest  in 
Merritt.  A  few  of  the  New  York  papers  spoke  of  it 
as  a  "national  speech, "  or  as  "the  opening  gun  in 
the- 1 91 8  campaign." 

"That,"  he  said,  "is  reasonably  accurate." 

Later,  when  the  speech  was  taken  up  in  discussion, 
I  said  my  talks  with  labor  men  had  shown  it  was 
rather  favorably  received,  at  the  same  time  ex- 


ROOSEVELT  ON  LABOR  155 

pressing  doubt  as  to  how  some  employers,  largely  in 
Merritt's  district  (he  being  elected  meantime)  would 
like  it  on  mature  thought. 

"Well,"  he  said,  "Gompers  will  not  quarrel  with 
anything  I  said  there,  and  the  others  cannot.  Most 
men  not  directly  interested  will  approve  of  all  I  said. 

"Here  is  the  speech  sent  out.  Except  for  what  I 
said  about  Merritt  in  opening,  I  followed  this  closely 
as  you  know.  Who  can  quarrel  with  this  or  deny  my 
accuracy?  'The  conditions  [of  business]  must  be  such 
that  the  business  man  prospers  or  else  nobody  will 
prosper;  and  yet,  unless  the  prosperity  is  in  a  reason 
able  degree  shared  by  the  men  who  work  with  him 
and  by  the  public  for  which  he  works,  it  is  of  little 
or  no  worth  to  the  community.  In  other  words,  we 
must  insist  upon  business  prosperity,  because  other 
wise  there  will  be  no  prosperity  at  all,  and  we  must 
insist  upon  reasonable  equity  in  passing  the  pros 
perity  around,  or  it  will  not  be  worth  having. 

'"The  demagogue  who  inveighs  against  and  seeks 
to  interfere  with  business  prosperity  is  really  the  same 
kind  of  an  enemy  to  the  common  weal  as  his  nominal 
foe,  the  reactionary,  who  refuses  to  acknowledge  the 
duty  of  the  Government  to  see  that  there  is  measur 
able  equity  in  the  distribution  of  the  fruits  of  this 
prosperity.  Our  aim  must  be  not  to  damage  success 
ful  business,  but  to  insure  good  conduct  in  business. 


156  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

: '  We  wish  to  secure  as  a  matter  of  right  for  the 
worker  among  other  things  permanency  of  employ 
ment,  pensions  that  will  permit  the  worker  to  look 
forward  to  old  age  with  dignity  and  security ;  insur 
ance  against  accident  and  disease,  proper  working 
and  living  conditions,  reasonable  leisure,  and  as  high 
wages  as  are  compatible  with  giving  to  capital  the 
return  necessary  to  induce  it  to  invest  and  giving  the 
public  proper  service. 

"  '  So  far  as  these  needs  can  be  obtained  by  private 
agreement,  well  and  good;  it  is  preferable  that  they 
should,  where  possible,  come  in  this  manner;  for  the 
most  important  thing  is  to  secure  a  mental  attitude 
that  will  secure  a  hearty  recognition  by  all  engaged 
in  a  business  that  each  must  treat  all  the  others  as 
partners,  that  all  should  render  the  very  best  service 
of  which  each  is  capable  and  that  both  the  obliga 
tion  and  the  reward  shall  be  mutual. 

"'In  addition  to  this  good-will,  there  must  be  the 
sanction  of  law.  The  State  must  require  and  guar 
antee  the  well-being  of  the  workers  as  the  essential 
part  of  its  policy  in  promoting  the  welfare  of  the 
business.  What  the  individual  can  do  by  himself  or 
in  connection  with  others  should  be  left  to  him  or 
them;  the  State  should  deal  with  what  cannot  thus 
be  left  to  private  individuals. 

'"But  the  welfare  of  the  workers  cannot  be  ob- 


ROOSEVELT  ON  LABOR  157 

tained  unless  the  welfare  of  the  business  is  assured 
and  the  Government  should  work  steadily  toward 
that  end.  The  demagogic  effort  to  break  up  or  de 
stroy  a  business,  merely  because  it  is  big  or  because 
it  is  prosperous,  is  mischievous  from  every  stand 
point.  The  aim  should  be  to  encourage  business  and 
control  it,  to  secure  cooperation  among  all  engaged 
in  business  so  far  as  is  possible,  and  to  supervise 
large-scale  business  so  as  to  insure  its  good  behavior ,~ 
buTnot  to  penalize  it  while  it  renders  proper  serv 
ice.' 

"Do  you  see  anything  to  quarrel  with  in  that?" 
he  demanded. 

I  explained  that  I  did  not,  but  added  that  he  went 
farther  in  some  respects  than  Mr.  Gompers  had, 
notably  in  the  matter  of  old-age  insurance  or  pen 
sions. 

' '  I  understand  that  the  unions  are  not  in  agree 
ment  on  the  desirability  of  this,"  he  said,  "but  I  am 
inclined  to  think  they  will  come  to  it  eventually. 
It  is,  perhaps,  as  well  that  they  make  haste  slowly 
in  this  respect.  As  I  understand  it,  their  position  is 
that  it  will  interfere  with  their  progress  in  other 
ways. 

"I  have  heard  since  I  saw  you  last  that  some  of 
Mr.  Merritt's  friends  regret  that  I  brought  labor  into 
this  thing.  I  do  not.  I  told  one  man  who  spoke  of  this 


158  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

that  I  am  not  at  all  concerned  in  pleasing  everybody. 
That  is  something  I  have  never  tried  to  do.  I  do  not 
propose  to  do  it  now.  I  am  too  old  to  make  that 
change. 

"The  greatest  liberty  in  doing  all  these  things  I 
have  advocated  should,  within  due  limits,  having 
regard  lor  all  interests,  be  left  to  the  employer  and 
employee.  There  is  a  limit,  however. 

"Une  of  the  greatest  dangers  I  can  imagine,  how 
ever,  is  a  combination^  an  agreement  of  short 
sighted  employers  and^  unscrupulous  union  leaders, 
to  fleece  the  public  between  them.  This  is  possible 
in  highly  organized  trades^  In  such  an  event  both 
sides  should  be  punished  with  the  greatest  severity. 

"I  have  aiwaysbeenjorj^^ 

the  law.  Thave  had  many  friends  since  my  days  in 
the  Assembly  among  the  cigarmakers.  I  have  always 
been  for  healthy  working^gonditions,  just  as  when 
I  was  Police  Commissioner  I  believed  the  unions 
should  be  allowed  to  picket,  so  long  as  they  did  not 
use  their  fists  or  clubs  to  pound  home  their  argu 
ments.  Where  they  tried  that  I  was  for  locking  them 
up.  That  was  fair  play  and  a  sane  way  of  looking  at 
the  matter.  That  is  all  I  advocate  now." 

I  raised  a  question  as  to  what  he  meant  by  per 
manency  of  employment  —  if  by  that  he  meant  a 
worker  should  have  a  vested  interest  in  his  position. 


ROOSEVELT  ON  LABOR  159 

Before  he  could  answer,  the  Chinese  gong  hanging 
in  the  hallway  sounded  the  signal  for  him  to  prepare 
for  dinner. 

"  No,"  said  he  rising,  "  not  exactly  that.  I  will  take 
the  matter  up  with  you  some  other  time.  There  is 
too  much  of  that  to  dispose  of  it  in  a  minute.  But  we 
can  say  this:  a  good  deal  of  consideration  should  be 
given  before  any  old  employee,  whether  he  be  super 
intendent  or  day  laborer,  is  thrown  out  of  employ 
ment." 

This  phase  of  his  labor  programme,  I  regret  to 
state,  we  never  took  up  again. 


"ONE  PURPLE  NIGHT" 

THIS  was  Colonel  Roosevelt's  description  of  a 
party  he  gave  at  a  Westchester  roadhouse 
early  one  Sunday  morning  in  the  fall  of  1917.  The 
Colonel's  guests  were  a  half-score  of  Bridgeport, 
Connecticut,  policemen  and  some  New  York  news 
paper  men;  the  party  followed  a  speech  by  the 
Colonel  in  Bridgeport. 

The  night  train  service  from  Bridgeport  to  New 
York  is  not  attractive,  and  whenever  the  Colonel 
spoke  there  he  would  return  to  New  York  by  motor, 
guarded  by  police.  First,  however,  there  would  be  a 
little  supper  at  the  Stratfield,  where  a  few  of  the  local 
leaders  would  meet  the  Colonel. 

On  the  night  in  question  the  supper  had  been  dis 
posed  of,  and  the  start  was  about  to  be  made  for 
New  York,  when  the  Colonel  asked  if  the  men  who 
were  to  accompany  him  were  those  who  had  been 
with  him  during  the  day.  John  King  said  they 
were. 

"That  must  not  be,"  said  the  Colonel.  "These 
men  have  been  on  duty  all  day.  It  will  be  all  hours 
before  they  can  get  back.  Send  them  home.  We'll 
get  back  all  right  without  them." 

"Nothing  doing,"  replied  King.  "The  men  will 


ONE  PURPLE  NIGHT  161 

insist  on  going.  They  can  sleep  to-morrow.  It's  their 
day  off." 

"  Very  well,  then,"  said  the  Colonel.  " Of  course  it 
will  be  all  right  for  me  to  give  them  a  little  money 
for  breakfast." 

"No,  sir,"  said  King;  "you  must  not  give  it,  and 
they  must  not  take  it.  That  would  never  do." 

"Well,"  said  the  Colonel,  "it  will  be  all  right  for 
me  to  take  them  to  breakfast  with  me?" 

"That  cannot  be  done,"  I  suggested. 

"So,"  concluded  the  Colonel,  "between  you  and 
King  I  seem  unable  to  do  anything.  Now,  why  can't 
I  take  them  to  breakfast?" 

"  Because  Mayor  Mitchel  closed  everything  except 
'one-arm'  lunch-rooms  at  one  o'clock." 

"By  Jove,  there  is  an  advantage  to  a  Broadway 
education,  is  n't  there?  It's  so  long  since  I've  been 
uptown  late  I  had  quite  overlooked  that  change.  But 
is  n't  there  some  good  place  between  here  and  New 
York?" 

There  were  several.  Mr.  King  recommended  the 
Post  Road  Inn  in  New  Rochelle,  and  it  was  decided 
to  stop  there. 

It  was  two  in  the  morning  when  we  reached  the 
place  in  three  automobiles  —  the  policemen  in  full 
uniform,  the  Colonel,  the  late  N.  A.  Jennings  of  the 
New  York  Herald,  A.  Leonard  Smith  of  the  New  York 


162  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

Times,  and  myself.  It  was  the  practice,  I  should  state, 
to  use  three  cars,  a  pilot  car  loaded  with  police,  the 
Colonel's  car  with  two  policemen  on  the  box,  and  a 
trailer  carrying  four  more.  Regardless  of  speed  laws, 
the  party  usually  made  fast  time. 

As  the  crowd  unloaded  at  the  Inn,  the  proprietor, 
naturally  swarthy,  looked  out  and  turned  pale. 
Alarm,  fear  of  a  raid,  and  arrest  were  written  on 
every  feature.  Before  he  could  say  or  do  anything  I 
assured  him. 

"Don't  be  scared,"  I  said,  as  I  led  the  police  in; 
"it's  not  a  raid  —  only  some  folks  after  something 
to  eat." 

With  a  sigh  of  relief  he  asked,  "How  many?" 
and  started  to  arrange  the  table.  Halfway  to  the 
dining-room  he  espied  the  Colonel  and  retraced  his 
steps. 

"Beg  pardon,"  said  he,  "but  is  n't  that  El  Presi- 
dente,  President  Roosevelt?" 

"It  is  Colonel  Roosevelt,  all  right,"  I  said.  And 
again  he  started  for  the  dining-room,  this  time  regis 
tering  something  like  a  cross  between  surprise  and 
elation.  A  moment  later  the  band  suddenly  switched 
from  rag-time  to  the  national  anthem,  and  before  the 
surprised  dancers  had  a  chance  to  adjust  their  steps 
the  Colonel  at  the  head  of  the  party  was  halfway 
across  the  room. 


ONE  PURPLE  NIGHT  163 

Instantly  the  dancers  broke  into  applause,  the 
few  who  had  been  seated  rising  to  cheer.  Then,  in  a 
confused  sort  of  way,  as  though  doubtful  of  what  to 
do  next,  all  hands  took  their  seats  and  watched  the 
Colonel's  party. 

The  dance-hall  crowd,  it  may  be  stated,  was  just 
such  a  crowd  as  one  .would  expect  in  a  country  road- 
house  at  an  early  hour  Sunday  morning  —  men  of 
the  "tired  business"  or  salesman  type;  girls  young, 
a  bit  inclined  to  be  flashy,  but  not  conspicuously  so 
—  something  between  the  "flapper"  and  the  chorus- 
girl  type.  Probably  all  had  worked  hard  during 
the  week  and  were  having  their  weekly  "blow 
out." 

After  some  discussion  of  the  bill-of-fare,  lobster 
was  ordered  —  that  and  champagne,  the  latter  by 
Colonel  Roosevelt  without  any  suggestion  from 
others  in  the  group.  During  the  meal  most  of  the 
talking  was  done  by  Colonel  Roosevelt,  among  it 
some  on  John  L.  Sullivan,  who  had  been  in  Bridge 
port  the  preceding  day.  He  also  discussed  some  of  his 
Spanish  War  experiences.  These  latter  followed  an 
interruption  by  a  man  wearing  the  Maltese  cross  of 
the  Spanish  War  veteran. 

"No  apology  needed,"  the  Colonel  assured  this 
man  when  he  apologized  for  "butting  in."  "I  am 
always  glad  to  meet  any  of  my  old  comrades  in  arms. 


164  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

We  did  not  have  much  of  a  war,  but  it  was  the  best 
to  be  had,  and  we  did  the  best  we  could." 

"  A  lot  of  the  old  boys  have  gone  from  around  here, 
Colonel,"  said  the  veteran  in  a  tone  suggesting  re 
gret  that  he,  too,  could  not  go. 

"I  know  it,  and  I  am  proud  of  them  for  having 
gone,"  answered  the  Colonel.  "If  I  had  been  per 
mitted  to  go,  to  take  my  division  across,  I'd  have 
had  whole  camps  with  me.  The  boys  are  right." 

"The  boys  are  all  strong  for  you,  Colonel;  they 
were  all  rooting  for  you  to  get  a  chance.  They  knew 
you'd  make  good." 

"And  they  would  have  made  good,  they  will  make 
good,  those  of  them  that  are  permitted  to  go,  and 
their  sons  will  make  good.  They're  the  make-good 
kind." 

Others,  emboldened  by  the  fact  that  the  Spanish 
War  vet  had  not  been  rebuffed,  then  came  up  to  pay 
their  respects.  When  the  last  had  gone,  some  one 
remarked  that  the  "ex-soldier  was  feeling  pretty 
good." 

"Yes,"  said  the  Colonel,  "I  noticed  that.  I  have 
noticed  before  this  that  all  Spanish  War  veterans 
are  not  teetotallers.  In  fact,  I  have  known  some  of 
my  own  men  to  get  rather  drunk,  to  put  it  mildly  — 
but  they  were  all  good  fellows,  just  the  same. 

"  I  remember  on  one  of  my  trips  West,  one  of  my 


ONE  PURPLE  NIGHT  165 

old  men  rode  many  miles  to  see  me.  He  'd  told  every 
body  what  he  was  going  to  say  and  what  a  good  time 
he'd  have  when  he  saw  me.  When  I  arrived,  how 
ever,  I  think  he  can  best  be  described  as  having  been 
too  full  for  utterance.  The  boys  had  had  to  tie  him 
up  and  lay  him  away  to  recuperate.  It  was  his  first 
lapse,  I  was  told,  in  several  years.  Of  course  I  did  n't 
see  him. 

"Later  on  I  had  a  letter  from  him  full  of  contrition, 
apologies,  and  regrets,  and  a  rather  naive  explana 
tion.  If  he  could  n't  celebrate  when  he  was  to  see  his 
old  Colonel,  when  could  he  celebrate?  However,  he 
added,  he  was  back  on  the  water-wagon.  Recently  I 
heard  he  was  still  on  it.  I  hope  he  stays  there  for  life, 
for  he  is  a  good  fellow  and  that's  his  one  weakness." 

The  curious  may  wish  to  know  if  the  Colonel  drank 
anything  that  morning. 

He  did  —  part  of  a  glass  of  wine. 


DEVIL-FISHING 

GOOD  sport,  but  not  exactly  the  thing  to  recom 
mend  to  a  weakling,  or  one  at  all  nervous  of  a 
little  danger/1  was  Colonel  Roosevelt's  opinion  of 
devil-fishing.  He  had  one  try  at  this,  in  the  spring  of 
1917,  when  the  declaration  of  war  against  Germany 
made  it  seem  advisable  to  call  off  a  visit  to  the  West 
Indies  for  which  he  had  made  all  of  his  plans. 

He  thought  so  well  of  the  sport  that  just  before  he 
died  he  wrote  his  friend,  Russell  J.  Coles,  of  Dan 
ville,  Virginia,  accepting  an  invitation  to  join  him  in 
an  expedition  on  March  I,  and  thanking  him  for 
having  included  Captain  Archie,  then  practically 
recovered  from  his  wounds,  in  the  invitation. 

"The  devil  fish,"  said  the  Colonel  describing  the 
sport  in  his  library  at  Oyster  Bay,  "is  the  big  game 
of  the  sea.  There  is  nothing  else  quite  like  it  that  I 
know  of,  though  I  doubt  if  it  will  ever  become  a  very 
popular  sport.  It  is  good  sport,  but  not  exactly  the 
kind  to  recommend  to  a  weakling,  or  one  at  all  nerv 
ous  of  a  little  danger.  I  do  not  know  that  careful 
physicians  will  agree  in  recommending  it  to  gentle 
men  of  advanced  years,  for,  as  you  may  imagine,  it 
is  hard  work. 

"I    became   interested   in   devil-fishing   through 


DEVIL-FISHING  167 

Russell  Coles,  of  Danville,  Virginia.  Coles  is  rather 
an  extraordinary  sort  of  person,  the  unusual  com 
bination  of  good  business  man  and  high-class  scien 
tist.  Most  of  his  year  he  devotes  to  his  tobacco  busi 
ness  in  Virginia.  The  rest  of  it  he  puts  in  hunting 
devil  fish  and  sharks,  and  by  way  of  diversion  at  odd 
moments  writes  scientific  articles,  or  prepares  papers 
to  be  read  before  scientific  societies.  He  takes  a  very 
practical  interest  in  public  affairs,  and  is  in  every 
sense  of  the  word  a  mighty  fine  citizen. 

"I  became  interested  in  him  through  something 
he  did  for  the  American  Museum  of  Natural  History. 
That  was  some  years  ago.  Since  then  I  have  had 
much  correspondence  with  him,  and  when  I  found 
that  I  could  not  go  South  as  I  had  arranged,  I  de 
cided  to  accept  one  of  his  many  invitations  to  go 
fishing.  His  proposal  was  that  I  should  spend  a 
month.  We  compromised  on  about  a  week. 

"In  devil-fishing  you  camp  in  a  house  built  on  a 
scow  that  is  anchored  off  a  Florida  key.  Your  fishing 
you  do  from  a  launch.  Coles,  who  is  a  whale  of  a  man 
himself,  has  a  crew  that  is  as  good  as  he  is.  His  cap 
tain,  Charley  Willis,  is  a  powerful,  two-handed  sort 
of  a  man  who  has  been  with  him  many  years.  An 
other  of  his  outfit  is  Captain  Jack  McCann.  He's 
unusual,  too,  a  good  seaman  and  a  naturalist,  who 
habitually  describes  plants  by  their  scientific  names. 


1 68  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

The  others  of  his  crew  —  he  usually  has  four  men  — 
are  of  the  same  high  type  of  intelligence. 

"It  is  some  considerable  journey  to  the  'camp/ 
There  you  get  up  at  sunrise,  get  into  rough  clothes, 
and  after  you ' ve  made  sure  that  the  gear  is  all  right, 
make  off  in  a  launch  for  the  fishing  grounds.  The 
weapons  used  are  harpoons,  which  the  real  fishermen 
call  *  irons,'  just  as  I  have  heard  some  whalers  call 
their  weapons,  and  a  lance.  Sometimes  the  old- 
fashioned  whaling  lance  is  used.  Coles  has  had  some 
made  on  designs  of  his  own.  New  Bedford,  by  the 
way,  is  the  best  place  to  get  these  things  if  you  ever 
wish  them. 

"The  iron  is  a  business-like  weapon.  It  has  a  head 
of  the  finest  tempered  steel,  on  a  shaft  of  soft  iron. 
There  is  one  there,  minus  the  wooden  handle.  When 
you  see  the  way  that  is  bent,  you  will  see  why  it  is 
necessary  to  make  the  shaft  of  comparatively  soft 
metal." 

The  instrument,  somewhat  rusted,  was  bent  to  an 
angle  of  almost  forty-five  degrees  and  occupied  a 
place  of  honor  on  the  mantel  on  which  rested  the 
bronze  presented  to  him  by  the  famous  "tennis 
cabinet. " 

"That's  one  I  used  on  the  big  fish  I  got  with 
Coles's  assistance.  You  see  it  is  so  built  that  once  in, 
the  struggles  of  the  beast  release  the  barb  and  usu- 


DEVIL-FISHING  169 

ally,  though  not  always,  prevents  your  prey  escap 
ing.  The  iron  is  attached  to  a  rope  which  is  either 
run  out  of  the  boat  or  made  fast  to  what  they  call  a 
drogue  —  a  sort  of  sea  anchor,  or  drag.  This  is  a 
powerful  brake,  but  one  of  these  creatures  will  pull 
a  heavy  launch  almost  unbelievable  distances  with 
one  of  these  drogues  fastened  to  it  with  another 
harpoon. 

"I  missed  my  first  fish  through  inexperience  in 
gauging  the  speed  at  which  it  was  moving.  The 
second  one,  I  got  square  in  the  middle  of  the  body. 
When  we  came  to  take  my  iron  out  we  found  I  had 
driven  it  through  bone,  muscle,  and  hide  more  than 
two  feet  —  two  feet  four  inches  to  be  exact  —  and 
the  thing  had  gone  through  the  beast's  heart.  After 
I  got  my  iron  into  it,  Coles  also  put  one  in.  With 
these  two  in  its  body,  the  thing  dragged  the  boat  a 
full  half-mile  before  it  became  exhausted  enough  for 
us  to  get  it  alongside.  Then  it  was  necessary  to  use 
the  lance  on  it  twice. 

"  I  should  say  that  before  I  went  to  Florida,  Coles 
had  coached  me  a  great  deal  —  so  that  I  knew  how  I 
was  expected  to  handle  myself,  where  to  aim  for 
with  the  harpoon,  and  how  to  use  the  lance.  He 
drilled  and  drilled  me  so  that  while  it  was  my  first 
'  appearance  on  any  stage '  as  a  devil-fisher,  I  was  by 
no  means  ignorant  of  the  art. 


1 7o  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

"On  the  second  fish  we  struck,  Coles's  iron  pulled 
out.  He  got  it  a  second  time.  This  one  towed  us  two 
miles. 

"One  of  our  specimens  when  we  came  to  measure 
it  proved  to  be  the  second  largest  of  which  there  is 
any  record  of  being  killed.  Coles  has  the  record  fish. 

"We  did  not  have  such  good  luck  on  the  second 
day,  the  one  fish  we  struck  being  lost.  In  this  respect 
it  is  like  every  other  kind  of  sport;  you  must  figure 
on  having  good  luck  and  bad,  and  on  days  when  you 
will  get  nothing  as  well  as  the  rare  days  when  you 
will  get  a  big  bag." 

"You  call  this  fish  the  'big  game  of  the  sea.'  How 
does  killing  it  compare  with  ' big-game'  killing 
ashore,"  I  asked. 

"It  is  difficult  of  comparison  because  all  of  the 
circumstances  are  so  different.  Both  are  good,  but  I 
think  I  prefer  the  land  game.  I  am  too  much  of  a 
landlubber  not  to  have  a  preference  for  solid  earth 
under  my  feet.  But  it  is  great  sport,  and  I  am  going 
back  when  I  have  more  time  to  spare,  just  as  I  hope 
to  get  another  chance  at  lions  in  Africa.  I  have  no 
desire  for  the  bigger  game,  elephants  and  that  sort  of 
thing,  but  I  would  like  a  few  more  lions. 

"Like  all  big-game  hunting,  in  devil-fishing  you 
have  to  depend  very  much  on  your  guides  and  you 
must  expect  some  considerable  danger  of  being  hurt. 


DEVIL-FISHING  171 

The  fish  will  not  attack  any  one,  but  when  attacked 
they  will  fight  back.  At  the  risk  of  being  called  a 
nature  fakir  I  '11  add  that  the  male  of  the  species  has 
been  known  to  attack  a  boat  which  had  made  fast 
to  a  female.  At  least,  that  is  what  veterans  at  the 
sport  tell.  Like  everything  else  of  this  sort,  this  is 
something  one  would  like  to  verify.  However,  Coles, 
who  like  most  scientists  is  sceptical  of  many  things, 
is  inclined  to  credit  these  stories. 

"Coles,  by  the  way,  got  into  this  thing  in  a  rather 
unusual  way.  He  had  the  groundwork  of  a  good  edu 
cation  when  he  went  into  devil-fishing  and  shark- 
hunting  because  he  had  become  wearied  of  other 
fishing.  The  scientific  side  of  the  thing  appealed  to 
him,  and  when  he  began  to  look  things  up,  he  found 
that  very  little  work  had  been  done.  Now  he  is  prob 
ably  the  world's  best  authority  in  this  line.  He  has 
also  gone  to  the  point  where  he  has  made  shark- 
fishing  attractive  from  a  commercial  standpoint. 
He  has  no  interest  in  the  commercial  side  of  the 
thing  —  he  has  passed  that  up  to  others  after  spend 
ing  quite  a  lot  of  money  in  pioneer  work.  That,  of 
course,  is  the  scientist  of  it." 

Colonel  Roosevelt's  last  college  degree  —  that  of 
Doctor  of  Science  —  was  awarded  him  by  Trinity 
College,  at  the  same  time  Coles  received  a  similar 
honor.  To  be  invested  in  the  degree  they  journeyed 


172  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

together  to  Hartford.  On  their  return,  the  Colonel 
said  he  had  had  a  "bully"  time. 

"Jack  Morgan  was  there  to  get  a  degree,  too,"  he 
said,  "and  he  was  very  much  interested  in  Coles. 
Coles  invited  him  to  go  fishing.  It  would  not  surprise 
me  if  he  went,  for  Morgan,  you  know,  is  a  husky 
chap  who  knows  a  thing  or  two  on  handling  a  boat 
himself  —  much  more  than  I  do." 


A  VARIED  READING  DIET 

IN  his  travels  Colonel  Roosevelt's  reading  was 
catholic  in  scope.  It  ranged  from  a  volume  of 
"Plutarch's  Lives,"  he  may  have  taken  from  his 
library,  a  bulletin  of  some  learned  society  picked  up 
from  a  desk  as  he  was  about  to  leave  home,  or  a 
popular  magazine  filled  with  detective  stories  or 
tales  of  adventure. 

"I  wish,"  he  would  say  as  we  were  arriving  in  a 
town,  "  that  you  would  try  and  get  me  a  copy  of  the 
Red  Book;  there's  a  detective  story  in  that  I  want 
to  finish";  or,  "see  if  you  cannot  pick  up  a  copy  of 
Adventure.  I  am  somewhat  of  an  adventurer  myself 
and  want  to  know  what  the  rest  of  the  tribe  may  be 
interested  in  just  now." 

Once  I  remarked  that  this  was  "rather  low-brow 
diet." 

"True,"  he  said,  "but  why  feed  entirely  on  the 
heavier  stuff?  I  get  all  the  ' high-brow'  magazines  at 
home.  Lord!  I  don't  read  one  half  of  them.  This  low 
brow  stuff,  as  you  call  it,  is  good  for  a  change.  I  like 
a  good  detective  story  when  I  can  get  it.  These 
things  may  not  be  literature,  but  they  interest  and 
rest  me.  They  make  up  the  salads  of  my  reading. 

"You  remember  old  Senator  Hoar  from  your 


174  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

State?  Do  you  remember  that  he  was  addicted  to 
dime  novels?  That  used  to  be  a  shock  to  some  very 
good  people  who  imagined  the  Senator  lived  on  the 
Transcript  and  the  Congressional  Record  when  he 
was  not  devouring  law  books  and  even  heavier 
things.  Some  saw  in  this  evidence  of  total  depravity 
on  the  old  man's  part  —  an  evil  example  to  the 
young.  It  was  merely  his  way  of  relaxing  and  resting 
up  between  times. 

"  I  was  very  fond  of  Hoar,  though  I  did  not  know 
him  as  well  as  I  would  have  liked  to.  I  have  often 
laughed  at  that  mot  of  his  on  'Ben'  Butler's  funeral. 
You  remember  some  one  asked  the  Senator  if  he 
were  going  to  attend  it. 

"'No,'  he  is  said  to  have  replied,  'but  I  approve 
of  it.'" 


"  TRYING  TO  KILL  ME" 

IT  sometimes  seems  that  some  of  my  admiring 
friends  wish  to  work  me  to  death.  The  idea  of 
most  committees  seems  to  be  to  pass  me  on  to  the 
next  place  as  nearly  dead  as  possible." 

Most  considerate  of  the  comfort  of  others,  Colonel 
Roosevelt  at  times  complained  of  the  lack  of  con 
sideration  for  him. 

"It  is  queer/1  he  said  on  another  occasion,  this 
time  when  he  was  reported  recovered  from  a  serious 
illness,  "that  people  should  hail  my  discharge  from 
the  hospital  as  the  signal  to  pile  invitations  to  work 
on  me.  Really  it  seems  as  though  one  half  of  the  let 
ters  congratulating  me  on  my  recovery  conclude 
with  an  invitation  to  speak  here,  there,  anywhere. 
There  are  hundreds  of  them." 

Returning  from  his  last  extensive  tour  of  the 
West,  the  Colonel  spoke  of  this  demand  of  speeches 
from  him.  He  had  been  ill  on  this  trip,  and  as  we 
neared  New  York,  I  ventured  to  advise  that  he 
spend  the  summer  quietly  at  Oyster  Bay. 

"I  hope,"  I  said,  "that  if  I  may  say  so,  this  ex 
perience  has  taught  you  something.  It  is  a  result  of 
your  not  following  Dr.  James's  orders  and  taking  a 
rest.  It  is  a  warning.  You  must  take  things  easy." 


176  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

"I  shall  do  that;  I  shall  have  to  do  that.  But  I 
shall  have  to  do  some  things. " 

"Colonel,  you  simply  will  have  to  rest.  There  are 
two  hot  months  ahead,  there's  good  boating  and 
fishing  at  Oyster  Bay,  you  have  n't  cut  your  winter's 
wood  yet.  I  am  presuming,  I  know,  but  you  must 
rest,  for  there's  hard  work  ahead  and  you  will  be 
needed.  In  saying  this  I  do  not  mean  to  be  offensive." 

"You  are  not;  you  are  perfectly  right,  and  I  shall 
take  things  easier.  You  simply  say  what  all  my  real 
friends  say.  But  I  must  go  to  Passaic  July  4.  I  must 
do  that." 

"You  should  not  accept  any  more  invitations. 
It  is  asking  too  much." 

"  I  know  it  is.  The  usual  committee  idea  is  to  pass 
me  along  to  the  next  town  as  nearly  dead  as  possible, 
always  taking  pains  to  see  that  I  do  not  die  on  their 
hands." 

"And  don't  yield  to  any  '  just  one  speech '  appeal." 

"I  won't.  You  are  saying  what  those  who  really 
have  my  interest  at  heart  say.  The  others  say  to  me, 
'Save  yourself/  and  then  ask  me  to  come  out  and 
speak  for  them.  Jim  Goodrich  wants  me  to  return 
to  Indiana  for  another  speech.  I  '11  see  him  in  hell 
first." 


LOYALTY 

THE  longer  I  live  the  more  I  am  inclined  to 
think  of  clan  loyalty.  I  am  afraid  of  those 
superior  persons  who  are  so  good  they  can  long  stand 
by  nobody,  not  even  themselves. " 

Colonel  Roosevelt  had  in  mind  some  members  of 
the  old  Progressive  party  who  did  not  fully  approve 
of  his  war  attitude.  These  were  the  more  respectable 
of  what  he  had  been  known  to  call  the  "lunatic 
fringe." 

"The  spirit  of  the  clan,"  he  went  on,  "is  what  we 
as  Americans  lack.  We  need  one  big  American  clan, 
with  its  members  always  for  the  clan.  I  must  confess 
that  I  have  never  been  able  to  get  the  viewpoint  of 
those  very  excellent  persons  who  object  to  the  old 
navy  toast:  'My  country  right,  my  country  wrong; 
but  right  or  wrong,  my  country/  There  are  other 
versions,  and  I  may  not  have  it  exact,  but  that  is  the 
thought. 

"  I  suppose  it  is  another  manifestation  of  my  gen 
eral  bloodthirsty,  swashbuckling  frame  of  mind,  my 
fondness  for  the  big  stick  and  violence  of  all  kinds. 
I  know  it  is  most  reprehensible  for  me  to  talk  to  a 
youth  of  your  tender  years  —  you  are  n't  much  over 
forty,  are  you?  —  and  I  should  know  better,  but  I 


1 78  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

don't.  I  cannot  bring  myself  to  that  point  where  I 
can  disagree  with  that  sentiment. 

"I  want  my  country  to  be  right;  I  hope  she  al 
ways  will  be  right;  but  right  or  wrong,  whatever  she 
gets  into  I  am  going  to  be  with  her  until  she  gets 
out.  Then  if  there  is  any  correcting  to  do,  I  '11  try 
and  do  my  share.  And  I  am  not  prepared  to  concede 
the  possibility  of  error  in  that  doctrine  by  agreeing 
to  debate  it  with  anybody. 

"  It  is  said  to  be  bad  ethics,  just  as  it  is  said  to  be 
bad  ethics  to  teach  a  boy  to  defend  himself,  or  his 
baby  brother  or  his  sister  or  his  mother.  Some  good 
people  hold  that  a  boy  who  gets  into  a  fight,  whether 
he  be  right  or  wrong,  should  be  punished.  I  do  not. 
If  one  of  my  boys  was  a  bully,  I  'd  try  to  thrash  it 
out  of  him.  If  he  would  not  defend  himself  against  a 
bully,  I  'd  thrash  him  until  I  had  some  degree  of  man 
hood  in  him.  He'd  require  but  one  thrashing. 

"The  clan,  of  course,  is  one  of  the  oldest  forms  of 
organization  —  it  is  a  crude  manifestation  of  the 
organizing  spirit.  At  bottom  there  is  no  real  differ 
ence  between  the  spirit  that  makes  possible  great 
corporations  and  that  responsible  for  our  New  York 
gangs.  It  is  the  clan  spirit  —  the  organizing  spirit. 
The  difference  is  that  in  one  instance  the  organizing 
spirit  is  developed  along  good  lines,  is  used  in  a 
proper  direction,  and  in  the  other  it  is  not.  Organi- 


LOYALTY  179 

zation  per  se  is  bad  only  when  it  is  used  for  bad 
ends. 

"The  New  York  street  gang  is  but  a  form  of  clan. 
The  gang  leader  comes  to  the  top  because  of  the  same 
general  qualities  that  makes  another,  born  into  hap 
pier  surroundings,  a  society  leader.  Both  have  to 
fight  their  way  up  through.  I  do  not  like  gangs,  and 
I  do  not  admire  gang  leaders,  but  this  much  is  to  be 
said  for  them  —  they  do  stand  for  something  and 
you  know  where  they  stand.  They  have  in  them  the 
essence  of  loyalty/1 


GERMANS  IN  AMERICA 

THERE  is  nothing  in  sound  Americanism  that 
will  not  be  endorsed  by  the  preponderating 
majority  of  the  men  and  women  of  German  blood 
in  America." 

This  sentiment  Colonel  Roosevelt  expressed  again 
and  again  to  all  who  would  listen  to  him  before,  dur 
ing,  and  after  hostilities.  He  was  most  emphatic  in 
declaring  it  after  leaving  Milwaukee,  and  again  on 
leaving  St.  Louis. 

After  a  meeting  in  Toledo,  largely  made  up  of 
Germans,  he  declared  they  resented  only  "  pseudo- 
Americanism." 

"It  is,"  said  he,  "only  the  pseudo-Americanism 
of  Wilson  that  they  object  to." 

With  this  declaration  went  a  call  for  fair  play  for 
the  Germans  in  this  country  and  he  went  out  of  his 
way  to  practice  what  he  preached. 

A  notable  example  of  this  was  in  St.  Louis,  which 
in  addition  to  a  large  German  population  also  has  a 
Mayor  of  German  blood  —  Henry  Kiel. 

When  the  Colonel  paid  his  last  visit  to  St.  Louis, 
he  was  very  sick  with  erysipelas.  He  was  insistent 
on  keeping  the  dates  made  for  him  by  the  National 
Security  League,  and,  by  following  his  physician's 


GERMANS  IN  AMERICA  181 

orders  to  get  all  possible  rest,  managed  to  do  so.  In 
St.  Louis,  however,  conditions  made  it  necessary 
that  he  take  a  hand  in  arranging  the  details  of  his 
meeting,  lest  injustice  be  done  somebody  and  a  bad 
matter  made  worse. 

This  condition,  partly  political  and  partly  hys 
terical,  arose  from  the  fact  that  the  local  committee 
was  not  in  sympathy  with  Mayor  Kiel,  who,  accord 
ing  to  some  of  its  members,  was  pro-German.  For 
this  reason  Kiel  had  been  overlooked  to  a  large 
extent  in  making  the  arrangements  for  the  Colonel's 
reception  and  meeting.  To  this  meeting  the  Colonel 
insisted  upon  being  introduced  by  the  Mayor.  The 
active  members  of  the  committee  did  not  wish  any 
thing  of  the  sort,  the  Mayor  was  not  on  hand  to 
speak  for  himself,  and  there  was  no  one  to  speak  for 
him. 

In  this  muddle  the  Colonel  insisted  that  courtesy 
and  fair  play  demanded  that  Kiel  be  given  an  oppor 
tunity  to  decline  to  take  part  in  the  meeting,  and 
that  every  other  consideration  supported  this  de 
mand.  If  the  Mayor  declined,  it  would,  he  said,  be 
another  story. 

"Then  I'll  hang  his  hide  on  the  barn  door,"  he 
declared  to  me;  "but  I'll  not  attack  him  nor  any 
other  man  until  I  am  sure  of  my  grounds  for 
attacking." 


1 82  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

After  much  backing  and  filling,  Judge  Dyer, 
whom  the  Colonel,  as  President,  had  placed  on  the 
Federal  Bench,  called  to  leave  a  card. 

"I  understand  the  Colonel  is  not  well,  so  I  won't 
ask  to  disturb  him,"  he  said. 

I  asked  him  to  wait  until  I  could  learn  the  Colo 
nel's  wishes  in  the  matter. 

"  By  all  means,"  he  exclaimed.  "  He  is  the  one  man 
in  St.  Louis  I  do  want  to  see." 

"The  Judge,"  he  told  me  after  the  visit,  "says 
Kiel  is  all  right.  He  knows.  I  'd  rather  have  that  old 
hardshell's  opinion  than  that  of  any  other  man  here. 
These  young  men  on  this  committee  are  nice  boys, 
but  they  don't  know.  If  they  were  residents  of  New 
York,  they  would  be  members  of  the  Citizens'  Union, 
and  strong  for  reform,  but  they  would  not  know  the 
names  of  their  Assemblymen." 

It  was,  however,  not  easy  to  locate  Mr.  Kiel;  he 
was  not,  in  fact,  located  until  the  Colonel  reached 
the  barnlike  Auditorium  where  the  meeting  was  to 
be  held.  Just  before  we  left  for  the  hall,  I  asked  what 
would  be  done  about  Kiel. 

"We  will  do  nothing  until  we  find  whether  or  not 
the  Mayor  shows  up,"  he  said.  "  If  he  does,  all  right. 
If  he  does  n't,  well,  I  '11  preside  myself  if  I  have  to." 

Mayor  Kiel  was,  however,  waiting  at  the  hall,  a 
bit  nervous,  but  glad  to  do  the  honors.  His  brief, 


GERMANS  IN  AMERICA  183 

clean-cut  speech  was  satisfactory  even  to  the 
Colonel,  who  was  mightily  pleased  with  the  way  the 
matter  turned  out. 

"Don't  you  see/'  he  asked,  on  the  way  back  to 
the  hotel,  "that  it  was  far  better  to  do  as  we  did  do? 
Had  we  proceeded  on  the  theory  that  Kiel  was  all 
he  was  said  to  be,  an  injustice  would  be  done  to  the 
man,  the  cause  for  which  we  all  stand  would  be  in 
jured,  and  we  should  have  gone  far  toward  setting 
up  such  another  situation  as  exists  in  Chicago.  Kiel 
is  not  another  Mayor  Thompson;  he  is  entirely  of 
another  type,  and  he  is  making  the  best  of  a  condi 
tion  that  at  times  must  be  very  difficult  for  him. 

"  It  is  always  best  to  be  fair  in  the  extreme  in  such 
matters;  best  to  go  slow  until  you  have  all  the  facts. 
Then  if  the  man  is  wrong  hit  him,  and  hit  him  hard ; 
show  him  no  mercy.  Had  Kiel  justified  what  they 
had  said  about  him  and  not  taken  part  in  that 
meeting,  I'd  have  pilloried  him.  I'm  glad  I  did  not 
have  to. 

"Just  think  how  it  would  have  heartened  the 
enemy  abroad  and  the  enemy  at  home  if  it  had  gone 
broadcast:  'Roosevelt  denounces  St.  Louis  Mayor 
as  Pro-German';  or,  'St.  Louis  Mayor  refuses  to 
speak  at  Loyalty  Meeting.1 

"Did  you  notice  how  well  the  crowd  took  what  I 
had  to  say  about  Germany  and  straight  American- 


1 84  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

ism?  That  audience  was  very  largely  German  —  it 
was  full  of  German  types  —  but  they  all  seemed  to 
like  it.  There  was  one  chap  there  —  I  wonder  if  you 
noticed  him,  he  sat  well  down  front  and  looked  like 
the  German  bandsman  the  funny  papers  print  —  he 
enjoyed  it  every  minute.  If  I  had  time  and  it  were 
possible  I  'd  like  to  meet  that  old  fellow  and  talk  with 
him.  Without  knowing  a  thing  about  him,  I  '11  wager 
that  he  is  one  of  those  Germans  who  left  Germany 
to  escape  the  '  Kultur '  we  are  now  fighting  to  escape." 

"  I  watched  Kiel  closely  during  your  speech,"  I 
said,  "and  he  seemed  as  well  pleased  as  your  German 
down  front  did." 

"  Probably,  though  he  is  in  rather  a  different  posi 
tion.  But  the  old  Judge  was  all  right.  Depend  upon 
men  of  his  type.  He's  an  old  hardshell  Republican, 
on  the  bench  and  out  of  politics,  but  he  knows  more 
than  all  the  nice  boys  on  the  committee  ever  will. 
Steve  Connell,  whom  you  met  to-day,  is  another 
shrewd  fellow.  He  was  with  me  when  I  was  in  the 
White  House  —  secret  service,  you  know.  He's  a 
fine  fellow  and  I  'm  glad  to  have  you  meet  him.You  '11 
find  him  dependable  and  straightforward." 

This  visit  to  St.  Louis  was  part  of  an  "invasion  of 
the  enemy's  country,"  including  Milwaukee,  and 
Springfield,  Ohio,  the  latter  the  seat  of  Wittenberg 
College,  one  of  the  oldest  Lutheran  institutions  in 


GERMANS  IN  AMERICA  185 

the  country,  and  Madison,  Wisconsin,  seat  of  the 
State  University,  which  Dr.  Robert  M.  McElroy,  of 
Princeton,  had  reported,  after  rather  an  unpleasant 
experience,  "was  not  one  hundred  per  cent  loyal." 
Proceeding  to  these  places,  the  Colonel  declared  it 
to  be  his  intention  to  "give  them  all  that  is  in  me." 

"  In  Milwaukee,"  said  he,  "  I  shall  give  them  every 
thing  I  have  said  anywhere  else  and,  if  I  can  think 
of  it,  something  more.  Being  in  what  Bryan  might 
call  the  'enemy's  country'  will  make  no  difference 
with  me.  I  do  not  anticipate  any  bother,  but  if  there 
is  any,  we  shall  have  to  make  the  best  of  it." 

Anticipating  "bother,"  secret  service  men  de 
tailed  by  the  management  of  the  St.  Paul  road,  the 
Colonel's  ever-faithful  colored  valet,  James  Amos, 
to  whom  his  last  words,  "Please  turn  off  the  light," 
were  spoken,  and  I  grouped  ourselves  about  him  as 
he  left  the  train.  He  broke  away  from  the  group  to 
greet  a  white-whiskered  old  man  who  walked  with 
a  cane.  "General,"  he  exclaimed,  "this  is  almighty 
good  of  you  to  come  and  see  me!  I  wanted  to  have  a 
talk  with  you.  I  was  going  to  call  at  your  home. 
May  I  call  there  or  will  I  see  you  at  the  hotel?  Which 
is  the  more  convenient  to  you?" 

"I  am  surprised  you  remember  me,"  said  the  old 
man.  "It  is  many  years  since  you  have  seen  me. 
I  will  see  you  at  the  hotel." 


1 86  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

"Come  right  up  now.  Yes,  indeed,  come  right  up 
with  me.  I  am  glad  to  see  you  and  you  must  come  to 
the  meeting.  I  want  you  on  the  platform. " 

The  old  man,  the  Colonel  introduced  as  General 
Mueller. 

"He  lost  a  leg  in  the  Union  Army,"  he  told  me  at 
the  hotel.  "He's  the  kind  of  man  that  has  saved  the 
mass  of  Germans  in  this  country  from  the  infamy 
some  of  their  number  would  put  upon  all:  men  like 
him  and  Adolph  Vogel  whom  you  just  met.  The 
General  tells  me  that  his  grandsons  are  all  in  the 
army  and  all  but  one  of  Vogel's  boys  are  there  too. 
That  one  goes  next  month. 

"Vogel  tells  me  they  have  the  largest  hall  in  town 
and  that  it's  already  packed  with  Germans.  He  has 
no  doubt  as  to  my  reception.  Neither  have  I.  But  I 
am  going  to  talk  straight  at  them." 

He  did.  Among  the  new  notes  struck  was  a  hard 
drive  on  the  teaching  of  German  in  grade  schools. 
To  my  surprise  this  was  the  "hit"  of  the  speech. 
I  mentioned  this  surprise  to  the  Colonel. 

"That  has  been  a  big  issue  here,"  he  said. 

After  the  meeting  a  young  man,  evidently  a  grad 
uate  of  some  German  university  to  judge  by  the 
duelling  scars  on  his  cheeks,  told  me  the  Colonel's 
talk  was  "the  sort  needed." 

"What  the  Germans  here  have  had,  in  private 


GERMANS  IN  AMERICA  187 

talk  at  least,  has  been  abuse/'  he  said.  " Loyal  men 
have  been  abused  as  much  as  those  openly  disloyal. 
This  has  tended  to  increase  disloyalty.  The  Colonel's 
talk  will  weaken  the  Bergers  and  strengthen  men 
like  Vogel.  Milwaukee  is  all  right." 

"The  young  man  is  not  entirely  accurate,"  the 
Colonel  commented  when  I  repeated  his  remarks. 
"He  is  quite  correct  on  the  matter  of  abuse.  But  he 
is  wrong  in  saying  that  Milwaukee  is  all  right.  There 
is  a  big  element  here  that  is  all  wrong.  Milwaukee 
to-day  may  be  sixty  per  cent  all  right,  fifteen  per 
cent  in  the  shadow  zone,  and  twenty-five  per  cent 
dead  wrong.  It  cannot  be  all  right  with  a  Socialist 
Mayor,  a  Socialist  Chief  of  Police,  and  a  Socialist 
Sheriff.  Remember,  the  Socialist  Party  which  elected 
these  men  is  not  an  American  institution." 

Springfield,  Ohio,  like  Milwaukee,  is  largely  popu 
lated  by  persons  of  German  birth  or  blood.  In  addi 
tion  to  Wittenberg  College,  which,  in  the  commonly 
used  term,  is  a  German  school,  it  had  thirteen 
churches  in  which  German  was  the  only  language 
used  and  four  where  both  German  and  English  pre 
vailed.  The  school  had  suffered  because  of  its  sup 
posed  German  leanings,  and  Springfield  as  a  whole 
was  not  pleased  with  the  reputation  that  it  was  in 
clined  to  be  pro-German. 

Dr.  Hecker,  an  aggressive  type  of  college  presi- 


1 88  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

dent,  more  the  able  administrator  than  the  great 
teacher,  was  very  anxious  to  overcome  the  feeling 
that  had  been  aroused,  and  as  one  way  to  accom 
plish  the  desired  result  invited  the  Colonel  to  address 
the  school.  Other  interests  joined  in  the  invitation. 

"I  have,"  said  the  Colonel,  speaking  of  his  deci 
sion  to  accept,  "  no  delusions  as  to  Dr.  Hecker's  self- 
interest  in  inviting  me  to  address  the  school.  It  is 
natural  and  proper  on  his  part.  But  I  won't  toe 
down  one  bit. 

"It  is  just  the  sort  of  place  I  want  to  speak,  but 
I  am  not  going  to  temper  my  remarks  to  please  any 
body.  Of  course  they  say  there  is  no  pro-Germanism 
in  that  country  and  that  they  are  poor,  much- 
abused,  little  woolly  lambs.  That  fools  nobody.  They 
are  now  trying  to  run  straight.  Very  well.  I  will  help 
them  by  giving  them  the  cleanest-cut  Americanism 
that  is  in  me.  They  have  agreed  to  this  and  they 
will  get  it. 

"  They  have  also  agreed  to  my  terms  as  to  arrange 
ments.  I  will  be  introduced  by  the  President,  who 
is  a  Lutheran  minister  of  German  blood,  and  the 
prayer  will  be  by  a  Roman  Catholic  priest  of  German 
birth,  Father  Vottman.  He  is  a  major  in  the  regular 
army,  an  old  chaplain,  and  a  Monsignor  in  the 
Church.  He  helped  immensely  in  adjusting  the 
Philippine  church  troubles. 


GERMANS  IN  AMERICA  189 

"  I  propose  also  to  say  a  word  to  them  on  the  wis 
dom  of  the  Lutheran  Church  making  English  the 
church  language  in  this  country.  Otherwise,  the 
Lutheran  Church,  powerful  as  it  now  is,  must  go 
the  way  of  the  Dutch  Reformed  Church  to  which  I 
have  the  honor  to  belong.  Had  it  changed  to  English, 
it  would  in  all  probability  be  one  of  the  leading 
churches  in  New  York  at  least.  But  it  stuck  to 
Dutch  too  long;  the  younger  people  drifted  away 
until,  too  late,  English  was  made  the  church  lan 
guage.  I  would  very  much  regret  a  like  fate  for  the 
Lutheran  Church.  I  want  it  to  continue,  as  it  is 
to-day,  a  permanent  and  powerful  factor  in  American 
life." 

Returning  East,  Colonel  Roosevelt  spoke  regret 
fully  of  the  changed  position  the  German  found 
himself  in  in  this  country. 

"I  was,"  he  said,  "very  sorry  at  the  changes  in 
Milwaukee.  This  was  my  first  visit  there,  you  know, 
since  that  madman  shot  me.  Before,  when  I  went  to 
Milwaukee,  my  German  friends  were  a  happy  lot. 
After  a  meeting  I  would  go  to  their  club,  there  would 
be  light  refreshments,  singing,  real  good-fellowship. 
Now  all  this  is  changed.  Men  like  Vogel,  real  Ameri 
cans,  who  are  doing  their  full  duty,  are  saddened  by 
the  position  some  Germans  would  put  all  of  their 
kind  in  America  in.  They  have  no  doubt  of  the  out- 


190  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

come  of  the  war  —  they  know  it  must  end  in  Ger 
many's  defeat;  but,  naturally,  they  fear  the  reaction 
on  the  Germans  in  this  country.  Some  of  them  in 
Milwaukee  have  behaved  very  badly.  I  do  not  refer 
to  Berger  and  his  class.  I  mean  a  higher,  and  sup 
posedly  more  respectable,  type. 

"Some  few  of  the  wealthier  and  more  influential 
ones  have  been  foolish  enough  to  start  a  sort  of  boy 
cott.  Take  Willett  Spooner.  Spooner  had  a  splendid 
law  practice,  largely  with  Germans  here.  Overnight 
almost,  I  am  told,  it  fell  away.  Spooner  had  given 
offence  by  taking  a  strong  American  position.  That, 
of  course,  is  rough  on  Spooner,  but  he  will  survive  it. 
The  very  people  .who  tried  to  hurt  him  will  be  glad 
to  go  back  to  him  and  ask  his  help  when  this  thing  is 
over.  They  will  suffer,  not  he. 

"The  German  in  this  country  has  been  a  good  citi 
zen.  He  has  been  thrifty  and  hard-working  as  a  very 
general  rule;  he  has  contributed  to  the  welfare  of 
every  community  in  which  he  lived.  He  has  been 
law-abiding  —  in  a  word,  has  met  his  obligations 
squarely.  This  is  particularly  true  of  the  older  Ger 
mans.  Properly  handled  there  would  have  been  very 
little  difficulty  with  them.  If,  from  the  start,  it  had 
been  made  clear  to  them  that  we  were  at  war,  not 
with  them,  but  with  the  Germans  in  France  and 
Belgium  with  guns  in  their  hands  trying  to  impose 


GERMANS  IN  AMERICA  191 

upon  the  world  the  things  they  left  Germany  to 
escape,  and  that  they  were  expected  and  relied  upon 
to  do  their  full  part  just  as  any  other  group  of  citi 
zens  were  expected  to  do  theirs,  there  would  have 
been  little  misunderstanding  and  very  little  of  this 
feeling. 

"I  have  absolutely  no  sympathy  with  the  over- 
zealous  patriot  who  would  persecute  everybody  here 
with  a  German  name.  It  is  all  wrong.  It  is  like  the 
case  of  an  old  German  waiter,  Emil  —  huh,  the  last 
name  has  escaped  me.  I  knew  him  when  I  was  Police 
Commissioner.  Not  long  since  I  met  him  as  I  was 
leaving  the  Metropolitan  office.  He  spoke  and  I 
remembered  him.  I  asked  him  how  he  was  getting 
along. 

" '  Oh,  purty  veil,'  he  said ;  '  my  two  boys  are  gone, 
one  in  the  army  and  one  in  the  navy,  my  son-in-law 
is  gone,  and  I  have  his  wife  and  the  grandchildren 
home  with  me,  but  still  some  people  call  me  "dot 
damn  Cherman." ' 

"I  told  him  he  was  a  pretty  good  American  and 
that  I  was  proud  to  know  him,  and  that  he  should 
be  proud  of  his  two  fine  sons  and  his  son-in-law. 

"Now  nothing  is  made  by  mistreating  men  like 
that  poor  waiter.  A  real  American  would  not  do  it. 
Instead,  he'd  devote  his  attention  to  the  men  on 
soap  boxes,  no  matter  who  they  may  be,  that  are 


192  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

preaching  peace  without  victory  or  praying  for  the 
defeat  of  one  of  our  brave  allies." 

The  question  of  German  immigration  after  the 
war  coming  up,  Colonel  Roosevelt  expressed  doubt 
as  to  how  extensive  it  might  be. 

"  I  am  not  as  sure  as  some  persons  seem  to  be  that 
there  will  be  any  great  migration  of  Germans  to  this 
country,"  he  said.  "It  will  all  depend,  I  suppose,  on 
the  condition  Germany  is  left  in  by  the  war.  For  one 
thing,  I  would  not  oppose  such  immigration,  pro 
vided  the  immigrants  were  of  the  kind  that  come 
here  prepared  to  work.  Most  Germans,  I  have  found, 
have  some  trade.  Very  frequently  they  are  highly 
skilled  along  special  lines.  Such  men  should  be  wel 
comed.  The  other  kind  should  be  barred." 

Again,  in  Toledo,  this  time  before  we  entered  the 
war,  and  while  the  Colonel  was  talking  politics,  he 
found  that  there  were  many  Germans  in  his  audi 
ence.  As  in  every  other  place  his  talk  was  mainly 
preparedness,  emphasized,  I  thought,  because  one 
of  the  committee  expressed  the  hope  that  many 
Germans  in  it  would  not  take  offence  at  what  he 
might  say. 

"My  dear  fellow,"  said  he,  "they  will  not  take 
offence  because  I  am  going  to  talk  straight  Ameri 
canism  to  them.  They  will  not  object  to  that.  Why, 
one  of  the  most  wonderful  books  of  the  war  was 


GERMANS  IN  AMERICA  193 

written  by  a  German  in  your  town  —  at  least  he  is 
of  German  blood.  It  is  called  'Their  True  Alle 
giance/  His  name  is  Ohlinger.  I  '11  be  obliged  to  you 
if  you  will  have  him  located  for  me." 

"Did  you  notice  that  I  offended  anybody  in  that 
audience?"  he  asked  after  the  meeting. 

I  assured  him  I  had  not. 

"I  did  not  think  you  would,"  he  replied,  adding: 

"Oh,  for  a  little  courage  and  plain  horse  sense  in 
the  handling  of  this  whole  German  question!  It 
would  make  things  so  much  easier." 


PLAYING  THE  GAME 

JULIUS  KAHN,  Member  of  Congress  from  Cali 
fornia,  did  yeoman  work  in  forcing  through  the 
draft  and  other  war  measures,  when  Mr.  Wilson's 
party  leaders  in  the  House  chose  to  refuse  their  aid. 
None  were  more  appreciative  of  this  work  than 
Colonel  Roosevelt.  In  private  and  in  public  he  ex 
tolled  the  Calif ornian  as  typical  of  those  of  German 
blood  and  birth  in  the  United  States  to  whom  their 
naturalization  decrees  were  more  than  "scraps  of 
paper." 

Imagine,  therefore,  my  surprise  when  early  in 
April,  1918,  Colonel  Roosevelt  refused  point-blank 
to  take  part  in  the  "Julius  Kahn  day"  celebration 
arranged  for  April  30  by  St.  Cecile,  New  York's  far- 
famed  "actors'  "  lodge  of  Masons.  The  surprise  was 
the  more  complete  because  I  was  sure  the  Colonel 
approved  of  the  demonstration  for  the  effect  it  might 
have  in  rousing  the  spirit  that  demanded  "peace 
through  overwhelming  victory." 

"No,"  said  he,  after  I  had  repeated  the  message 
given  me  by  R.  W.  George  Loesh,  who  was  in  charge 
of  the  affair,  "  I  will  not  take  part  in  the  celebration, 
though  I  wish  you  'd  thank  the  boys  for  remembering 
me.  Itisoutof  thequestion.  On  that  I  am  as  adamant." 


PLAYING  THE  GAME  195 

" Colonel,"  I  asked,  "will  you  come  if  I  make  it  a 
personal  matter?  This  is  the  first  thing  St.  Cecile  has 
ever  asked  me  to  do,  and  I  'd  like  to  do  it.  They  do 
wish  you  would  come.  Now,  won't  you?" 

"Jack,"  said  he,  "I  am  surprised  that  you  do  not 
see  how  impossible  it  is  for  me  to  do  as  you  ask.  I 
really  am.  I  am  surprised  that  Bro.  Loesh  or  any 
one  else  should  ask  it.  For  me  to  attend  would  be 
absolutely  unfair  to  Kahn.  Can't  you  see  that?" 

I  confessed  that  I  could  not. 

"I  cannot,"  said  I,  "conceive  how  it  would  be 
unfair  to  any  man  in  the  world  for  you  to  attend  a 
celebration  in  his  honor.  Why,  at  this  stage,  it 's  the 
greatest  honor  any  American  could  have  paid  him!" 

"Jack,  your  loyalty  to  me,  your  affection  for  me 
if  I  may  so  term  it,  has  destroyed  for  the  moment 
your  perspective.  You  know  I  like  Kahn,  that  I 
have  a  very  high  regard  for  him  as  a  man  and  as  a 
citizen.  I  'd  do  anything  to  help  Kahn.  I  won't  hurt 
him.  You  don't  see  it  now.  Let  me  explain  it  for 
you. 

"On  your  own  statement,  Kahn  was  raised  in  St. 
Cecile  thirty-odd  years  ago  when,  to  use  your  own 
words,  he  was  a  '  ham  actor,'  and  wholly  unknown  to 
fame.  As  such  he  went  West,  took  up  law,  and  finally 
landed  in  Congress.  All  this  time,  as  you  say,  he 
retained  his  membership  in  his  mother  lodge.  And 


196  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

how  a  dozen  or  so  years  ago,  when  he  happened  in 
town  on  a  lodge  day,  he  almost  had  to  work  his  way 
in,  so  few  of  the  active  members  knew  him. 

"Now  he  is  about  to  visit  it  again,  not  as  an 
humble,  almost  unknown  member,  but,  if  you  please, 
almost  as  a  hero,  as  a  type  of  hero,  to  be  received 
by  all  of  the  big  men  in  the  Craft,  with  all  the  honors 
the  Craft  may  bestow  on  a  member  who's  made 
good  in  an  extraordinary  way.  That  is  as  it  should 
be.  The  dramatic  values  of  the  contrast  will  not 
escape  your  associates,  I  'm  sure.  It  should  be  a  splen 
did  affair  with  Kahn  in  the  centre  of  the  stage  all  the 
time.  That  is  as  it  should  be,  for  it  is  his  day. 

"It  would  not  be  that  way  were  I  to  attend.  I 
know  what  would  happen.  So  do  you.  I'm  not  im 
modest  when  I  say  it  would  be  a  Kahn-Roosevelt 
day,  or  more  likely  a  Roosevelt-Kahn  day,  with 
Kahn  playing  second  fiddle  part  of  the  time  at  least. 

"  Don't  you  see  how  unfair  that  would  be  to  Kahn? 
It  would  not  be  square;  it  would  n't  be  playing  the 
game.  It's  to  be  his  day,  and  he's  entitled  to  the 
whole  of  it.  Furthermore,  so  far  as  the  effect  on  the 
outside  public  is  concerned,  there  '11  be  more  inspira 
tion  to  intensive  war  work  if  it  is  what  you  have 
planned  —  a  demonstration  in  honor  of  an  humble 
Congressman  of  German  birth,  but  a  real  American 
who  did  his  full  duty  with  no  truculent  ex-President 


PLAYING  THE  GAME  197 

cluttering  up  the  stage.  It  would  be  wrong  from 
every  angle.  You  see  it  now,  I  know." 

"However,  Colonel,"  I  said,  "you  won't  mind 
sending  a  letter  of  declination  in  which  you  record 
some  of  the  nice  things  you've  been  saying.  Kahn, 
I'm  sure,  would  like  that?" 

"Certainly,"  he  replied,  "I'm  glad  to  do  that. 
That  won't  interfere  with  the  fitness  of  things;  at 
least  it  should  not  detract  anything  from  what  should 
be  a  great  day." 

In  his  talk  with  me  Colonel  Roosevelt  spoke  of  the 
values  of  contrasts,  and  as  I  write  I  cannot  but  re 
cord,  for  like  reason,  the  excuse  given  by  a  public 
official,  then  suffering  from  the  sting  of  the  Presiden 
tial  Bee,  for  not  appearing  at  the  celebration  after 
promising  to  do  so. 

"Why,"  he  asked,  "should  I  do  anything  to  help 
boom  a  man  who  may  be  one  of  my  rivals  for  the 
Presidential  nomination?" 

The  man  to  whom  the  explanation  was  made 
missed  the  unconscious  jest  in  the  answer.  Like  the 
man  who  made  it,  he  had  forgotten  Section  5,  of 
Article  2,  of  the  Constitution.  This  reads: 

"No  person  except  a  natural-born  citizen  .  .  . 
shall  be  eligible  to  the  office  of  President." 


MAKING  UP  WITH  TAFT 

JACK,  I  Ve  seen  old  Taf t,  and  we  're  in  perfect 
harmony  on  everything." 

Colonel  Roosevelt  fairly  beamed  the  words  —  if 
one  may  be  said  to  beam  a  word  —  in  his  rooms  in 
the  Blackstone  Hotel  one  Sunday  in  May,  1918.  He 
had  just  come  in  from  his  first  real  meeting  with 
Judge  Taft  since  the  break  in  1912,  and  he  was 
happy  as  the  proverbial  lark. 

"We're  in  perfect  harmony  on  everything,"  he 
repeated.  "Now  hurry,  for  we've  got  to  make  a 
train." 

I  say  "real  meeting"  advisedly,  for,  while  it  is 
true  that  Mr.  Taft  and  the  Colonel  met  during  the 
1916  campaign  in  the  Union  League  Club,  at  the 
request  of  Mr.  Hughes's  managers,  the  "reconcilia 
tion  meeting"  was  anything  but  cordial  or  friendly. 

"It  was,"  as  the  Colonel  remarked  at  one  time, 
"one  of  those  friendly  affairs,  where  each  side,  be 
fore  entering  the  meeting-place,  made  sure  its  hard 
ware  was  in  good  working  order." 

The  Union  League  meeting  was  arranged  solely 
for  the  effect  it  might  have  on  the  country ;  it  was  as 
much  a  staged  affair  as  though  Belasco  had  planned 
it,  though  it  lacked  the  Belasco  touch.  Because  it  was 


MAKING  UP  WITH  TAFT  199 

so  poorly  (or  so  palpably)  staged,  its  only  effect  on 
the  public  was  to  provoke  a  rather  large  grin. 

The  Chicago  meeting,  on  the  other  hand,  was  as 
satisfying  as  it  was  unexpected ;  there  were  hearts  in 
the  hand-clasps.  For  this  reason,  the  effect  on  the 
country,  and  more  particularly  the  Republican  part 
of  the  country,  was  all  the  Union  League  meeting 
was  not. 

Colonel  Roosevelt's  serious  illness  in  the  early 
part  of  1918  opened  the  door  to  the  real  reconcilia 
tion.  Mr.  Taft  took  advantage  of  the  Colonel's  re 
covery  to  write  him  a  warm-hearted  letter  of  con 
gratulation  —  a  typical  Taft  letter.  On  his  part  the 
Colonel  reciprocated  in  kind,  saying,  among  other 
things,  in  his  note  to  Mr.  Taft,  that  his  was  the  first 
letter  he  was  answering.  This  paved  the  way  to  other 
letters,  and  when,  soon  after,  the  Colonel  delivered 
his  " keynote"  speech  to  the  Maine  Republican 
Convention,  the  manuscript  was  submitted  to  Mr. 
Taft  for  his  opinion.  Mr.  Taft  suggested  a  few 
changes  in  its  wording,  changes  the  Colonel  gladly 
made. 

From  this  point  mutual  friends  helped  the  situa 
tion  along  by  repeating  to  Colonel  Roosevelt  kindly 
things  Mr.  Taft  had  said  about  the  Colonel.  The 
Colonel  was  particularly  appreciative  of  a  story  told 
by  Governor  W.  L.  Harding  of  Iowa. 


200  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

The  Governor,  it  appeared,  had  been  a  guest  at 
dinner  with  Mr.  Taft,  where,  over  the  coffee,  all 
hands  turned  to  discussing  the  conduct  of  affairs  in 
Washington. 

"  When  I  see  the  way  things  are  going  in  Washing 
ton,  it  makes  my  blood  fairly  boil,"  Mr.  Taft  was 
quoted  as  saying,  "  but  when  I  think  how  much  mad 
der  they  must  make  T.  R.,  I  feel  a  whole  lot  better." 

"From  the  bottom  of  my  heart,  I  am  sorry  for 
Roosevelt,"  he  went  on  after  the  laugh  had  subsided. 
"  Here  he  is,  the  one  man  in  the  country  best  capable 
of  handling  the  situation,  denied  any  part  in  it,  and 
compelled  to  sit  in  the  bleachers  and  see  the  ball 
booted  all  over  the  lot." 

Some  one  —  I  know  not  who  —  repeated  this 
story  to  the  Colonel,  and  in  telling  of  it,  the  Colonel 
added  that  "Taft  was  not  much  better  off." 

"Taft,"  said  he,  "could  do  real  work  in  Washing 
ton  —  he  could  do  great  work  abroad.  Think  what 
he  could  do  in  Baker's  place;  what  a  splendid  thing 
it  would  be  to  have  him  in  Paris  or  London  or  Rome ! 
Just  think  of  the  appeal  that  would  make  to  the 
imagination  of  the  people  of  Europe!" 

On  the  morning  of  the  Hotel  Blackstone  meeting, 
Colonel  Roosevelt  arrived  in  Chicago  en  route  for 
Des  Moines.  He  planned  a  quiet  day  —  a  meeting 
with  Richard  Lloyd  Jones,  of  Madison,  Wisconsin, 


I 


is 


IN  BARBADOS 


MAKING  UP  WITH  TAFT  201 

and  a  private  talk  to  an  editorial  association  in  the 
afternoon,  a  late  dinner,  and  an  early  train.  After 
the  talk  to  the  editors,  he  advised  me  to  "take  the 
evening  off." 

"There  won't  be  a  thing  doing,"  said  he.  "I'm 
going  to  get  into  some  dry  clothing"  (he  was  per 
spiring  very  freely),  "have  a  late  dinner,  and  get 
ready  for  the  ten-o'clock  train.  You  had  better  take 
the  evening  off,  but  be  back  by  nine- fifteen  sure." 

My  idea  of  taking  the  evening  off  was  to  stick 
about  the  hotel  lobby,  for  travelling  with  the  Colonel, 
as  all  newspaper  men  who  have  toured  with  him  will 
testify,  was  serious  business.  One  never  knew  what 
might  turn  up,  and  in  the  months  immediately 
before  and  after  our  entry  into  the  war,  there  was 
always  the  chance  that  some  German  fanatic  might 
seek  to  aid  the  Fatherland  by  destroying  him.  The 
Colonel  gave  this  danger  small  thought,  but  it  was 
present  nevertheless. 

Therefore  I  had  my  dinner,  filed  a  brief  despatch 
for  New  York,  and  was  chatting  with  the  Western 
Union  operator  in  the  hotel,  when,  suddenly,  came 
the  sound  of  cheers  from  the  dining-room.  They  were 
not  the  customary  well-bred  cheers  one  looks  for  at 
any  time  in  a  hotel  like  the  Blackstone  —  rather 
were  they  the  kind  one  hears  in  a  mass  meeting  in  the 
midst  of  an  exciting  campaign. 


202  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

Both  telegraph  operators  and  the  telephone  girl 
paused  in  their  work —  cheers  in  the  Blackstone  on  a 
Sunday  night  are  so  unusual.  I  made  for  the  dining- 
room. 

In  the  Blackstone  the  dining-room  is  some  nine 
or  ten  steps  above  the  level  of  the  office  floor.  These 
steps  were  crowded  by  men  and  women  who  a  mo 
ment  before  were  seated  in  the  lobby  —  all  very 
much  excited  about  something. 

"What's  up?"  I  asked  a  man  on  the  lower  step. 

"Nothing;  only  T.  R.  and  Taft's  got  together," 
he  replied.  "They're  in  there  holding  an  old-home 
week." 

"Old-home  week"  seemed  to  describe  it  perfectly. 
At  the  far  side  of  the  dining-room  at  a  small  table 
by  a  window  sat  the  two  ex-Presidents.  Mr.  Taft 
was  beaming,  and  Colonel  Roosevelt,  leaning  half 
across  the  table,  was  expressing  himself  very  ear 
nestly.  It  was  for  all  the  world  like  two  old  soldiers 
met,  after  many  years,  at  a  G.A.R.  reunion. 

I  left  the  crowded  stairs  to  bulletin  New  York, 
"Roosevelt  and  Taft  dining  together"  — for  it  so 
appeared  from  the  stairs,  and  returned  to  await  the 
end  of  the  meal.  On  my  way  I  met  Mr.  Taft. 

"Judge,"  I  asked,  "won't  you  tell  me  about  your 
meeting  with  Colonel  Roosevelt?  Was  it  by  appoint 
ment?" 


MAKING  UP  WITH  TAFT  203 

"Lord,  no!"  said  he.  "I  came  here  from  St.  Louis 
on  War  Labor  Board  business  —  we  have  a  session 
here  to-morrow  —  I  was  halfway  to  my  room  when 
I  heard  he  was  in  the  dining-room  and  going  to  leave 
in  a  few  minutes,  so  I  just  dropped  in  on  him  to  pay 
my  respects.  Is  n't  he  looking  splendid?  I  never  saw 
him  looking  much  better." 

"Did  you  talk  politics?" 

"Son,"  laughed  Mr.  Taft,  "you  really  do  not  ex 
pect  me  to  answer  that  question,  do  you?" 

"Well,  I  am  safe  in  assuming  you  did." 

"Now  don't  you  assume  anything,"  he  com 
manded.  "You  just  quote  Mr.  Taft  as  saying  Colonel 
Roosevelt  and  he  discussed  patriotism  and  the  state 
and  welfare  of  the  Nation.  That  will  cover  every 
thing." 

I  left  Mr.  Taft  to  go  to  the  Colonel's  suite,  arriving 
just  as  he  came  bouncing  in. 

"Jack,"  he  exclaimed,  "did  you  know  I've  just 
met  old  Taft?" 

"I  have  just  left  him,"  I  replied.  "How  did  it 
happen?" 

"  I  was  never  so  surprised  in  my  life,"  he  answered. 
"I  thought  I  heard  some  one  call  'Theodore'  and  I 
looked  up  just  as  he  reached  the  table  with  his  hand 
stuck  out.  There  was  so  much  noise  being  made  by 
the  people  in  the  room  I  am  not  quite  sure  what  he 


204  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

said.  I  think  it  was,  'Theodore,  I  am  glad  to  see 
you/ 

"  I  grabbed  his  hand  and  told  him  how  glad  I  was 
to  see  him.  By  Godfrey,  I  never  was  so  surprised  in 
my  life.  He  was  farthest  from  my  thoughts.  I  no  more 
thought  of  him  being  in  Chicago  than  in  Timbuctoo. 
But  was  n't  it  a  gracious  thing  for  him  to  do?  Now, 
I  don't  know  what  to  tell  you.  What  did  he  say?" 

I  repeated  what  Mr.  Taft  had  given  me  for  publi 
cation. 

"Taft  is  right,"  he  said.  "That  covers  it.  Let  it 
stand  at  that.  But  I  am  mighty  glad  to  tell  you  that 
he  agrees  with  me  on  everything.  He  feels  exactly 
as  I  do  about  those  people  in  Washington  and  the 
way  they  are  carrying  on." 

A  few  minutes  later,  still  beaming,  the  Colonel 
came  downstairs  to  take  a  cab  for  the  train. 

"Jack,"  said  he,  "I  don't  mind  telling  you  how 
delighted  I  am.  I  never  felt  happier  over  anything 
in  my  life.  It  was  splendid  of  Taft." 

"It  is  a  big  night's  work,"  I  said,  "and  notice  to 
the  world  that  the  party  is  really  and  truly  united. 
It  will  be  so  taken  in  Washington." 

"  I  believe  you  are  right."  And  then,  with  a  laugh, 
"It  is  too  bad  to  spoil  Mr.  Wilson's  breakfast! 

"But  the  important  thing,  Jack,  is  something 
more  than  our  meeting.  Did  I  tell  you  that  he  is  in 


MAKING  UP  WITH  TAFT  205 

perfect  harmony  with  me  —  that  we  agree  perfectly 
on  the  way  things  are  going  in  Washington?  That  is 
important.  What  did  you  wire  New  York?" 

"Just  a  brief  despatch,  emphasizing  the  warmth 
of  your  meeting.  I  had  no  time  for  more.  I  think  it 
well  to  let  the  fact  sink  in  and  follow  the  story  with 
one  bringing  out  the  significance  of  the  meeting. 
I  am  also  wiring  John  King  a  personal  message." 

"Good;  John  should  know,  by  all  means.  You  will 
know  what  to  tell  him." 

No  more  was  said  on  the  way  to  the  station  —  the 
Colonel  was  busy  with  his  thoughts  and  —  humming 
his  favorite  battle  air,  "Garry  Owen." 


MONEY-GRUBBERS 

I  FIND  I  can  work  best  with  those  people  in  whom 
the  money  sense  is  not  too  highly  developed,'* 
said  Colonel  Roosevelt  one  afternoon  in  the  course 
of  a  chat  on  the  veranda  at  Sagamore  Hill.  He  had 
just  come  in  from  a  tramp  about  the  estate  and  he 
was  in  a  speculative  mood. 

11  With  the  Irishman  in  whom  as  a  whole  it  is  lack 
ing  rather  than  with  the  Jew  in  whom  as  a  rule  the 
money  sense  is  dominant,  I  get.  the  best  results," 
said  he.  "Of  course  there  are  exceptions  on  both 
sides !  —  Blank  [naming  a  well-known  New  Yorker] 
is  pure  Irish  and  as  keen  after  money  as  any  man  I 
ever  knew,  while  Oscar  Straus,  a  pure  Jew,  has  the 
money  sense  as  little  developed  as  is  possible  in  any 
man  —  and  I  would  treat  every  man  as  an  individual. 

"The  weakness  of  the  Jew,  however,  is  in  his  lack 
of  national  spirit.  I  do  not  like  that  any  more  than  I 
like  the  Ultramontanes  among  the  Catholics,  among 
whom  are  some  of  the  friends  I  think  most  of. 
Archbishop  John  Ireland  —  what  a  magnificent 
American  he  is!  Take  Mgr.  Cassidy  —  a  bully  fellow. 

"Do  you  know  that  I  often  find  the  impulsive 
Irishman,  who  may  be  depended  upon  to  throw  all 
caution  to  the  winds  when  he  is  speaking  for  himself, 


MONEY-GRUBBERS  207 

more  than  likely  to  be  the  most  cautious  of  men 
when  speaking  for  or  advising  another?  Why?  I  pre 
sume  it  is  largely  due  to  his  delight  in  tearing  an  op 
ponent  to  pieces  and  his  habit  of  always  being  on  the 
alert  for  an  opening  in  the  armor  of  another.  Advis 
ing  you,  he  is  apt  to  put  himself  in  an  opponent's  place 
and  do  what  an  opponent  would  do  —  pick  holes  in 
your  argument.  It  is,  I  presume,  one  expression  of 
Irish  wit,  which,  after  all,  is  mental  alertness." 

"Why,"  I  asked,  "do  you  think  this  type  of  Irish 
man  fails  to  exercise  this  caution  in  his  own  affairs?  " 

"Partly  because  no  man  can  appraise  his  own 
words  at  exactly  the  value  others  may  place  on  them, 
and  partly  to  the  Irishman's  proverbial  disregard 
of  personal  danger.  He  is,  I  have  found,  as  careful 
of  his  friends  as  he  is  reckless  of  himself.  It  is  a  mani 
festation  of  his  loyalty. 

"Take  dear  old  Joe  Murray  as  an  example.  Joe  is 
frankness  itself  when  it  comes  to  speaking  for  him 
self,  in  voicing  his  own  opinion.  But  he's  never  got 
over  the  fear  that  I,  in  my  rashness,  may  say  some 
thing  that  may  injure  me.  More  than  once  I  know  I 
have  caused  him  worry.  He 's  been  as  worried  in  my 
later  campaigns  as  he  was  when  he  started  me  in 
politics,  by  having  me  nominated  for  the  Assembly. 
You  know  that  he  called  my  personal  canvass  off 
because  he  thought  I  was  too  rash  in  telling  a  liquor 


208  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

dealer  he  was  not  paying  taxes  enough?  He's  always 
been  fearful  of  like  outbreaks. 

"Old  Joe  lacks  the  money  sense.  I  can  understand 
that.  But  I  am  frank  to  confess  I  cannot  understand 
the  man  who,  having  enough  for  all  his  needs  and 
those  of  his  family,  pursues  more  money  for  the  mere 
sake  of  piling  it  up. 

"Mind  you,  I  am  not  referring  now  to  the  man 
who,  in  work  that  benefits  a  whole  community,  ac 
quires  a  great  fortune  incidental  to  his  service  to  the 
community.  With  that  type  of  man,  money  is  not 
all-important  —  it  is  not  the  goal  —  and  he  is  en 
titled  to  what  may  fairly  come  to  him.  Such  men  are 
necessary  in  great  industries  —  are  a  natural  by 
product,  so  to  speak,  of  productive  industry. 

"The  man  I  refer  to  is  the  man  who  piirsues  money 
for  the  sake  of  piling  it  up  —  the  money-grubber. 
For  the  life  of  me,  I  cannot  understand  what  he 
wants  more  than  enough  for.  Of  course  I  understand 
that  with  this  type  getting  money  is  a  game  to  be 
played  like  chess,  but  what  I  do  not  understand  is  his 
mental  processes. 

"  Money  per  se  has  never  meant  anything  to  me.  I 
have  never  had  so  much  that  I  did  not  have  to  work, 
and  usually  I  have  had  to  consider  carefully  and  plan 
my  outlays.  Otherwise  I  would  have  become  bank 
rupt.  But  I  have  always  had  all  I  needed  for  real 


MONEY-GRUBBERS  209 

comfort  for  myself  and  my  family  in  the  modest 
style  we  would  have  preferred  to  live  had  we  the 
wealth  of  Croesus. 

"In  more  recent  years  I  have  had  a  comfortable 
surplus,  but  it  has  meant  very  little  to  me  except  for 
what  we  may  have  been  able  to  do  with  it. 

"Mind  you,  I  do  not  undervalue  money  and  I  am 
not  talking  against  thrift.  What  I  mean  is  that  the 
really  wise  person  is  he  who  tries  to  see  money  in  its 
real  perspective.  The  young  man  who  is  careful  and 
thrifty  —  not  miserly,  but  thrifty  —  makes  the  best 
citizen.  Conversely,  the  man  with  a  lot  more  money 
than  he  needs  who  spends  it  in  lavish  display  is  not 
a  good  citizen,  though  he  may  think  he  is.  His  exam 
ple  to  others,  not  so  wealthy  as  he,  is  bad;  his  influ 
ence  upon  others  is  bad. 

"It  all  comes  down  to  the  question  of  service.  The 
man  with  money,  in  an  industry  producing  wealth 
and  enriching  the  community,  is  doing  real  service. 
The  man  who  having  money  devotes  himself  to  pub 
lic  service,  not  necessarily  politics,  because  he  is 
free  from  the  need  of  earning  a  living,  is  a  good  citi 
zen.  His  money  is  a  blessing  to  him  and  a  service  to 
the  community. 

"But  the  money-grubber  —  I  do  not  understand 
him,  and  I  am  sorry  for  him.  I  'm  Pharisee  enough  to 
rejoice  that  I  am  not  as  he  is." 


NEW  BLOOD  IN  THE  G.  O.  P. 

BY  the  way,  do  you  know  Beekman  Winthrop, 
Governor  of  Rhode  Island?"  Colonel  Roose 
velt  asked  at  Sagamore  Hill  one  afternoon. 

"Not  very  well,"  I  said.  "I  think  I've  met  him 
but  once.  He  seemed  a  decent  sort." 

"  I  met  him  a  few  days  ago,"  the  Colonel  went  on, 
"and  I  was  just  a  bit  surprised  to  find  him  a  pretty 
regular  sort  of  a  fellow.  I  had  thought  he  was  more 
of  a  Newport  society  chap. 

"I  was  pleased  to  find  he  is  surrounding  himself 
with  men  of  all  race  stocks  that  show  themselves  to 
be  really  American.  Funny,  too,  but  Colt  and  Lippett 
[Senators  from  Rhode  Island]  rather  oppose  that  sort 
of  thing.  They  have  gotten  where  they  are  willing 
to  admit  a  French  Canadian  to  full  fellowship,  but 
they  balk  at  the  Irish.  He  is  gradually  working  these 
young  men  in  so  that  eventually  they  will  hold  places 
of  power  and  responsibility  in  the  party.  They  seem 
to  feel  that  the  party  is  a  sort  of  club. 

"  It  is  so  silly  to  oppose  the  entrance  of  new  blood 
into  the  party.  To  do  so  is  to  fail  to  recognize  that 
there  are  new  racial  elements  in  the  community  that 
are  coming  to  the  point  where  they  must  be  consid 
ered  politically,  for  they  are  political  factors. 


NEW  BLOOD  IN  THE  G.  O.  P.         211 

4 'The  wise  thing  to  do  is  to  welcome  all  that  are 
good  in  these  new  elements  into  the  party,  make 
them  feel  at  home,  and  give  them  a  share  of  the  work 
that  is  to  be  done,  and  let  them,  in  time,  work  into 
the  places  that  belong  to  them.  Otherwise  your  party 
is  apt  to  become  too  exclusive  to  be  of  value  when 
it  comes  to  a  real  test. 

"Beekman  Winthrop  has  an  adjutant  on  his  staff 
who  is  a  Jew.  He 's  a  bright  young  fellow  who 's  come 
along  on  his  merit.  At  dinner  the  other  night  two  of 
the  most  prominent  party  men  there  hardly  spoke 
to  him.  I  remarked  to  Winthrop  that  it  was  as  cad 
dish  a  thing  as  I  had  ever  seen.  He  said,  'You  ought 
to  be  around  and  see  how  many  petty  things  of  that 
kind  I  have  to  put  up  with.' 

"From  now  on,  I  am  for  Beekman  Winthrop. 
Any  one  who  thinks  he 's  little  more  than  a  Newport 
society  chap  is  going  to  be  disappointed. 

"  I  am  strong  for  the  type  of  Irishman  represented 
by  Jimmy  Gallivan  [Representative  James  A.  Gal- 
livan  of  Massachusetts]  and  Griffin  of  Rhode  Island. 
I  can  work  with  them,  for  they  are  Americans. 
They  belong." 

"Jimmy  Gallivan,"  said  I,  "is  a  Roosevelt  Demo 
crat.  He  stands  for  everything  you  do." 

"  I  know  it.  Do  you  know  he  described  the  recent 
contest  in  his  district  as  Roosevelt  and  Gallivan 


TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

against  Burleson  and  Curley?  The  day  after  the  pri 
mary  he  wired  me  that  the  Roosevelt-Gallivan  ticket 
had  won. 

"  I  can  work  with  men  like  him.  Gallivan  is  better 
than  his  party.  His  natural  inclinations,  his  training, 
and  his  experience  make  him  better.  Had  things 
been  managed  differently  in  Massachusetts  I  have 
no  doubt  Gallivan  and  many  others  like  him  would 
as  young  men  have  gone  into  the  Republican  Party. 
As  it  was,  they  probably  were  not  welcomed  be 
cause  of  a  short-sighted  policy  of  exclusiveness.  Now 
that  is  changing  as  it  should  change.  It  should  not 
be  possible  to  tell  a  man's  politics  by  his  name." 

Mr.  Gallivan,  by  the  way,  was  the  means  uncon 
sciously  used  on  one  occasion  by  Colonel  Roosevelt 
to  show  of  what  little  consequence  he  considered 
most  members  of  Congress.  It  was  incidental  to  the 
fight  in  the  House  to  put  the  Harding  amendment 
to  the  Army  Bill,  under  which  the  Colonel  might 
have  been  given  a  commission.  In  this  fight  the 
Associated  Press  quoted  "Gallivan  (Dem.  Mass.)" 
as  making  a  strong  plea  for  the  amendment  and  an 
attack  upon  Secretary  Baker. 

"Who  is  Gallivan?"  the  Colonel  asked. 

"Gallivan,  of  Boston  —  the  old  Ninth,  the  South 
Boston-Dorchester  District,"  I  answered. "  Youknow 
him." 


NEW  BLOOD  IN  THE  G.  O.  P.         213 

"No,  I'm  sure  I  do  not,"  said  the  Colonel. 

"Of  course  you  do,"  I  ventured  to  contradict. 
"You  certainly  know  Gallivan,  the  old  Harvard 
second  baseman?" 

"Know  him?"  asked  the  Colonel.  "Why,  of 
course,  I  know  him!  But  do  you  know  I  didn't 
realize  that  Jimmy  Gallivan,  the  great  second  base 
man,  had  become  a  mere  Congressman!" 


SPEED  ON  THE  TRIGGER 

OF  the  many  traditions  that  grew  up  about 
Theodore  Roosevelt  was  that  of  his  being  in 
stant  on  the  trigger.  Indeed,  enemies  have  not  hesi 
tated  to  accuse  him  of  going  off  at  half-cock.  Nothing 
could  be  farther  from  the  facts.  Of  all  the  men  I 
have  known,  in  and  out  of  public  life,  I  have  known 
none  of  any  consequence  whatever  who  was  more 
careful  of  his  premises  before  moving  than  he.  Com 
pared  to  him  the  man  who  first  laid  down  the  prin 
ciple,  "Be  sure  you  are  right,  then  go  ahead,"  was 
a  speed  maniac. 

The  tradition  was  and  is  mainly  due  to  the  Colo 
nel's  ability,  almost  uncanny,  to  see  months  in  ad 
vance  of  most  mortals,  to  his  fondness  for  work, 
and  his  habit  of  practising  the  preparedness  he 
preached.  In  public  matters  it  was  not  unusual  for 
him  to  have  a  speech  on  some  phase  of  the  situation 
likely  to  be  uppermost  ready  weeks  or  months  in 
advance.  When  the  time  seemed  ripe  —  pop !  and  the 
Colonel  had  his  say  in  speech,  public  statement,  or 
letter  answering  some  correspondent. 

As  I  write  I  have  before  me  two  typewritten  man 
uscripts.  One,  labelled  "tentative  draft  for  letter 
protesting  against  the  establishment  of  a  civilian 


SPEED  ON  THE  TRIGGER  215 

engineer  corps  in  the  navy,"  is  incompletely  dated, 
and  the  salutation  is  left  blank  by  the  typist.  In  the 
Colonel's  distinctive  hand  appears  the  name  "Mr. 
Reuterdahl,"  and  a  few  words  from  his  pen  and  his 
signature  are  at  the  end.  This  was  a  document  pre 
sented  by  one  interested  in  the  matter.  To  help  the 
cause  along,  the  Colonel  made  the  draft  his  own, 
and  sent  the  completed  letter  to  his  naval  artist 
friend. 

Another  typewritten  manuscript  left  the  typist 
as  a  statement  on  a  "Naval  Training  Cruise."  As  it 
left  the  Colonel  it  was  a  draft  for  a  complete  letter, 
his  hand  supplying  date  line,  an  address,  and  a  few 
words  in  closing  before  his  signature.  This  went  to 
a  Mr.  Slocum,  after  a  secretary  had  typed  it,  while 
copies  of  the  letters  and  a  memorandum  on  the 
cruise,  written  by  the  Colonel,  went  to  the  press. 
At  the  moment  the  navy's  needs  were  important 
and,  as  usual,  he  was  ready. 

Yet  another  instance.  While  the  Colonel  was  put 
ting  in  his  hardest  licks  for  preparedness  he  one  day 
read  the  "cabinet"  a  speech  he  intended  to  deliver 
when  opportunity  offered.  A  fortnight  passed,  then 
in  came  a  letter  from  St.  Louis. 

"Here,"  said  the  Colonel,  "is  where  I  make  use 
of  that  speech  I  read  you  the  other  day.  I  will  send 
it  to  this  man  in  answer  to  his  letter." 


216  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

Next  day,  not  more  than  forty-eight  hours  after 
he  had  written  Colonel  Roosevelt,  the  man  in  St. 
Louis  read  in  his  morning  paper  perhaps  a  column 
of  a  letter  answering  him.  The  following  day  the 
letter  itself,  three  to  four  columns  long,  reached 
him.  It  would  be  difficult  to  convince  that  man 
that  Colonel  Roosevelt  on  receipt  of  his  letter  did 
not  drop  all  other  business  and  proceed  to  answer 
him.  His  friends,  knowing  some  of  the  facts,  would 
think  as  he  did.  Sure  the  Colonel  was  quick  on  the 
trigger! 

But  only  in  the  sense  that  the  forehanded  gunner, 
waiting  with  gun  in  hand  for  the  ducks  to  rise,  is 
quick. 


ROOT,  MOST  VALUED  OF  COUNSELLORS 

IN  the  traditions  that  have  grown  up  about 
Colonel  Roosevelt,  none  has  been  more  persist 
ently  circulated  by  political  foes  than  that  which 
described  him  as  being  headstrong  and  impatient  of 
advice  or  criticism. 

This  was  the  direct  opposite  of  the  truth.  He  wel 
comed  criticism  even  when  he  did  not  agree  with  it, 
and  to  make  this  clear  to  me  when  I  one  day  apolo 
gized  for  having  ventured  to  criticize  something  he 
had  prepared  for  publication,  he  told  why  he  held 
Elihu  Root  to  have  been  the  most  valuable  member 
of  his  Cabinet. 

"That  is  exactly  what  I  want,"  said  he.  "It's 
exactly  what  I  want.  That  is  why  you  are  more  val 
uable  to  me  than  I  am  to  you,  why  I  talk  so  freely 
to  you.  I  want  your  opinions  and  I  want  you  to  fight 
me  when  you  think  I  am  wrong.  I  'm  not  omniscient, 
and  no  one  knows  it  better  than  I. 

"  It  is  because  Root  would  not  hesitate  to  express 
an  opinion  that  he  was  immensely  more  valuable  to 
me  in  the  Cabinet  than  John  Hay  was.  Hay  was  a 
splendid  character,  likable  and  lovable,  but  he  would 
never  criticize.  He  would  n't  fight  for  an  opinion. 


2i 8  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

Root  would,  and  he'd  give  persistent  battle  for  his 
viewpoint.  He  was  a  most  dogged  fighter. 

"Sometimes  I  would  accept  his  views,  sometimes 
I  would  allow  his  opinion  to  modify  my  own;  more 
often,  perhaps,  I  would  ignore  him  altogether  and 
follow  my  own  ideas.  But  his  frankness,  his  out 
spokenness,  were  of  great  help  in  making  me  see  all 
sides  of  a  question. 

"It  was  his  practice  to  analyze  everything  from 
the  standpoint  of  the  other  fellow.  If  there  was  a  hole 
in  an  argument,  he'd  point  it  out.  If  there  was  a 
place  where  the  other  fellow  could  kick  a  hole,  he  'd 
proceed  to  plug  that  point  if  he  could.  Lord,  I  wish 
you  could  have  seen  the  condition  in  which  State 
papers  came  back  to  me  after  Root  had  gone  over 
them!  Sometimes  I  would  not  recognize  my  own 
child,  and  sometimes  I  was  very  thankful  I  could  not. 
On  top  of  all  that  Root  was  honest  and  absolutely 
loyal.  It  was  his  idea  of  loyalty  to  fight  if  necessary 
to  make  his  friends  see  where  they  were  about  to  err. 

"John  Hay  had  no  such  value.  He  would  approve 
en  bloc  anything  I  put  before  him. 

"Now,  there  was,  of  course,  a  reason  for  this. 
It  lay  in  the  different  lives  they  led.  Hay,  as  you 
know,  had  led  a  quiet  and  rather  sheltered  life  —  he 
had  never  been  in  real  contact  with  life,  he'd  never 
had  to  fight  for  anything. 


ROOT,  MOST  VALUED  COUNSELLOR     219 

"Root's  life,  you  might  say,  was  one  long  fight. 
He  had  to  fight  for  everything  he  ever  got.  All  his 
life  he  'd  been  doing  business  with  big,  domineering, 
strong-bitted  men  like  the  elder  Morgan,  men  in  the 
habitof  having  their  own  way  in  all  things.  With  them, 
Root  simply  had  to  stand  up  and  fight  to  get  them 
to  do  things  the  way  he  saw  they  ought  to  be  done. 

"I  have  n't  the  slightest  doubt  that  on  many  an 
occasion  he  had  to  become  rather  strenuous  to  make 
his  points  stick,  but  I  '11  wager  he  made  them  stick 
and  that  his  employers  were  glad  afterward  that  he 
had  made  them  stick.  It  was  his  idea  of  loyalty  to 
give  his  associates  the  full  benefit  of  everything  he 
had  in  view,  even  if  he  had  to  fight  to  make  them 
take  it. 

"  These  habits  he  brought  into  the  Cabinet  and 
these  made  him,  as  I've  said,  its  most  valuable 
member. 

"  I  have  been  fortunate  in  having  had  a  few  such 
advisers  as  Root.  Leonard  Wood  is  one  of  them. 
Wood  never  took  advantage  of  our  friendship  to  ask 
for  anything  he  was  interested  in  personally,  but  in 
matters  that  concerned  me  and  my  personal  fortunes, 
he  has  been  the  frankest  of  candid  critics.  Jack 
Greenaway  is  another.  He  was  one  of  the  most  valu 
able  men  in  my  regiment.  In  his  own  way,  old  Joe 
Murray  has  been  invaluable.  Joe  has  always  felt  a 


220  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

paternal  interest  in  me  from  the  fact  that  he  started 
me  in  politics.  He  would  be  the  last  to  presume,  but 
if  Joe  thought  he  saw  breakers  ahead  or  had  some 
bit  of  information  he  thought  I  should  have,  he  was 
never  bashful  about  presenting  it. 

"  Murray  has  one  trait  developed  to  a  remarkable 
degree  —  his  ability  to  sense  public  feeling  on  any 
subject.  Repeatedly  his  reports  on  the  drift  of  things 
have  been  right  when  men,  supposed  to  be  experts 
and  who  had  every  facility  for  getting  the  facts,  were 
wrong.  Joe  has  only  common  sense  and  a  faculty  of 
detaching  himself  from  his  wishes.  More  than  once 
he 's  shown  me  where  I  was  mistaken  or  had  made  a 
miscalculation. 

"  I  have  always  been  glad  to  have  such  men  about. 
I  have,  however,  no  use  for  the  man  who  criticizes 
everything,  who  cuts  in  just  because  he  thinks  he 
has  got  to  or  because  he  wishes  to  air  his  superior 
wisdom.  These  are  as  bad,  almost,  as  those  cautious 
souls  who  are  always  afraid  of  saying  something  that 
may  cost  votes.  I've  known  some  who,  had  they 
lived  in  the  days  of  Moses  and  had  access  to  him,  in 
all  probability  would  have  declared  against  the  pub 
lication  of  the  Decalogue  on  the  ground  that  some 
persons  would  be  offended  and  votes  lost. 

"The  honest  and  intelligent  critic  I  welcome,  al 
ways  welcomed,  and  always  will  welcome. 


ROOT,  MOST  VALUED  COUNSELLOR     221 

"The  man  who  cannot  stand  to  have  his  plans  and 
ideas  criticized  is  a  fool.  The  wise  man  will  welcome 
criticism,  so  long  as  it  is  honest  and  intelligent.  I 
know,  and  you  do,  men  who  want  no  one  about  that 
does  not  agree  with  them,  men  who  are  afraid  of 
being  told  unpleasant  truths.  Such  men  are  fools. 
In  a  long  journey,  as  Emerson  says,  '  The  truth,  how 
ever  unpleasant,  is  the  safest  travelling  companion/  ' 


WITH  THE  ALLIES'  ENVOYS 

JACK  MITCHEL  told  me  it  was  by  directions 
from  Washington  that  I  was  not  asked  to  speak 
at  the  official  welcome  at  the  Waldorf.  Apparently 
it  is  the  idea  to  keep  the  visitors  free  from  any  pos 
sible  Roosevelt  contagion.  It  won't  succeed." 

Colonel  Roosevelt  was  speaking  of  the  dinner 
given  by  the  City  of  New  York  to  General  Joffre 
and  M.  Viviani  representing  France,  and  Arthur  J. 
Balfour,  representing  England,  shortly  after  their 
arrival  in  this  country  following  our  entrance  into 
the  war. 

"That  is  why  I  went  to  the  dinner  given  General 
Joffre  by  Mr.  Frick,"  he  went  on.  "You  know  my 
antipathy  to  dinners.  I  had  no  desire  to  meet  such 
a  group  as  I  knew  Mr.  Frick  would  have  there,  and, 
when  first  invited,  I  declined.  Then  Mitchel  came 
to  see  me.  He  explained  that  it  was  by  orders  of  the 
State  Department,  which  is  really  in  charge  of  these 
visitors,  that  none  but  Joe  Choate  and  himself  were 
to  be  allowed  to  speak  at  City  Hall  or  at  the  banquet. 
Nominally  it  is  a  city  affair.  Actually  it  is  being  di 
rected  by  Mr.  Lansing  with  Frank  Polk  in  immedi 
ate  charge. 

"When  he  told  me  that  and  renewed  his  invita- 


WITH  THE  ALLIES'  ENVOYS         223 

tion  to  Mr.  Prick's  dinner,  I  accepted.  I  am  glad  I 
did.  I  was  seated  next  to  the  General,  and  when  he 
found  we  could  talk  to  one  another  —  well,  he  did 
not  talk  much  to  any  of  the  others.  He  did  not  tell 
me  anything  I  did  not  know,  or  suspect.  France  does 
want  our  men.  She  wants  them  badly,  more  than  she 
wants  supplies. 

"Joffre  has  told  Washington  that.  They  must 
have  men.  Joffre,  I  find,  understands  the  position 
we  are  in.  He  has  no  delusions." 

Next  on  the  list  of  envoys  to  hold  private  confer 
ence  with  the  Colonel  was  Mr.  Balfour.  This  was 
arranged  by  General  Bridges,  of  the  British  Army, 
who  called  on  the  Colonel  to  ask  when  it  would  be 
convenient  for  him  to  receive  Mr.  Balfour. 

"  I  told  him,"  said  the  Colonel  describing  the  call, 
1 '  that  I  would  be  very  glad  to  see  Mr.  Balfour  at  any 
time,  and  as  Sunday  seemed  to.be  his  only  open 
time,  I  suggested  that  he  take  tea  with  us  Sunday 
afternoon.  I  explained  to  him,  however,  that  on  the 
hill  here  we  never  dine  on  Sunday.  Instead  we  have 
what  might  be  called  a  high  tea,  a  most  informal 
sort  of  a  meal,  and  he  'd  have  to  take  'pot  luck.' 

"  General  Bridges  replied  that  it  would  be  to  Mr. 
Balfour's  exact  liking,  and  it  was  agreed  that  they 
should  come  out  Sunday." 

Mr.  Balfour  was  Colonel  Roosevelt's  guest  until 


224  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

late  into  the  night.  When  he  had  gone,  Colonel 
Roosevelt,  evidently  much  pleased  with  the  visit, 
said  they  had  canvassed  the  entire  situation. 

"The  British,"  said  the  Colonel,  "doubt  that 
Washington  even  now  appreciates  the  needs  of  the 
hour.  They  still  seem,  from  what  these  men  say,  to 
be  of  the  opinion  that  we  can  successfully  fight  this 
war  with  dollars  and  vegetables  —  that  Uncle  Sam's 
part  in  it  is  to  be  that  of  a  settler." 

Next  the  Italian  mission,  headed  by  the  Prince 
d'Udine,  went  to  Oyster  Bay  which  was  not  in  the 
official  programme,  the  Italian  Embassy  having 
vetoed  a  proposal  that  it  be  included,  on  the  nom 
inal  ground  that  royalty  cannot  visit  a  commoner, 
a  decision  overruled  by  the  Prince. 

"The  Prince  expressed  regret  that  he  would  not 
be  able  to  visit  the  trophy  room  of  which  he  said  he 
had  heard  much,"  said  the  Colonel.  "'1  should  be 
very  glad  to  have  you  call/  I  told  him,  'but  I  was 
told  you  would  find  it  impossible  to  do  so.'  The 
Prince's  answer  was  something  like  '  Nonsense/  so 
he  came  out." 

Telling  this  story  at  the  Harvard  Club,  Colonel 
Roosevelt  took  occasion  to  read  a  lesson  in  manners 
to  a  well-known  reporter,  who  resented  the  idea  that 
an  ex-President  of  the  United  States  was  not  the 
equal  of  any  prince. 


WITH  THE  ALLIES'  ENVOYS         225 

"You  might  have  told  him,"  said  this  man,  "that 
you  are  as  good  as  he  is." 

"That  is  exactly  what  I  should  not  have  done," 
snapped  the  Colonel.  "Whenever  you  find  a  man  go 
ing  around  declaring  he  is  as  good  as  somebody  else, 
rest  assured  he  does  not  believe  he  is  and  his  decla 
ration  of  equality  or  superiority  is,  in  effect,  an  ad 
mission  of  inferiority.  The  man  who  is  as  good  as  the 
other  fellow  does  not  have  to  advertise  the  fact." 

From  Mayor  Mitchel's  explanation  as  to  why  he 
was  not  asked  to  speak  at  the  public  functions  in 
honor  of  the  Allies*  envoys,  and  from  his  contact 
with  some  of  them,  Colonel  Roosevelt  gained  the 
impression  that  more  than  ever  he  was  "getting 
under  their  skins." 

"My  efforts  to  make  them  do  something  seem  to 
be  getting  under  their  skins  in  Washington,"  said  he. 
"I  am  very  glad  of  that  if  it  only  results  in  making 
them  move  in  the  right  direction." 

Following  his  long  talk  with  General  Joffre,  the 
Colonel  was  much  amused  by  a  report  that  the  great 
Frenchman  had  increased  his  vocabulary  by  the 
addition  of  a  single  English  word. 

"He  pronounces  it  *  bull-lee/"  I  told  him. 

"The  General,  as  usual,  shows  admirable  judg 
ment,"  he  laughed.  "It's  a  perfectly  good  word.  I 
ought  to  know.  I've  used  it  years  enough." 


POLICE  AND  CITIZENSHIP 

IF  you'll  promise  to  mail  this  promptly,"  said 
Colonel  Roosevelt  one  day  in  1918,  "  I  '11  let  you 
in  on  a  State  secret  —  our  friend  Arthur  Woods  is 
going  to  France  on  a  special  assignment.  This  con 
tains  some  letters  I  am  giving  him  to  Clemenceau 
and  others  he  may  wish  to  meet.  He  is  an  excellent 
fellow,  and  I'd  like  to  help  him." 

"He  made  a  good  Police  Commissioner,  Colonel," 
I  observed. 

"The  best  New  York  ever  had,"  came  the  prompt 
answer.  "  I  used  to  think  that  honor  belonged  to  me, 
but  it  no  longer  does  —  Woods  has  been  a  better 
man  than  I  was.  If  that  letter  were  not  sealed,  you  'd 
find  I  say  so  in  the  enclosures.  You  like  Woods?" 

"Yes,  he's  a  friend  of  mine  —  he  tried  to  help  me 
get  into  the  army." 

11  Did  n't  you  like  his  police  work?" 

"Yes,  sir,  though  until  you  had  spoken  I  would 
not  have  ranked  him  quite  so  high.  I  always  felt  that 
niche  was  permanently  filled  by  you." 

"I  did  myself;  but  to  be  entirely  honest  Woods 
has  done  everything  I  did  as  well  as  I  ever  did  it, 
and  he's  done  other  things  much  better.  In  some 


POLICE  AND  CITIZENSHIP  227 

respects  his  work  was  easier,  but  this,  I  think,  was 
more  than  offset  by  the  changed  conditions,  the 
growth  of  the  city,  and  a  large  increase  in  the  po 
tentially  criminal  classes.  Crime  has  become  more 
refined  —  by  that  I  do  not  mean  criminals  have  be 
come  cultured  —  but  that,  as  in  other  trades,  crim 
inals  have  made  progress.  They  have  had  newer  and 
better  tools  to  work  with  —  the  automobile  is  an 
example  —  new  implements,  and  there  have  been 
more  types  of  crime  and  criminals. 

"The  wealth  of  the  city  has  increased  enormously, 
especially  its  easily  portable  wealth;  it  has  spread 
out  more,  and  more  than  ever  the  city  has  become  to 
America  what  Paris  is  to  the  world  —  a  playground 
for  men  and  women,  particularly  men,  with  more  or 
less  money  and  more  or  less  sense.  This  has  served 
to  bring  in  a  larger  number  of  criminal  types  of  both 
sexes  —  you  know  what  I  mean  —  and  it  has  made 
police  work  more  difficult. 

"Under  Woods's  control  of  the  police  New  York 
is  cleaner  than  it  ever  was  —  infinitely  cleaner  than 
I  was  ever  able  to  make  it.  New  York,  with  all  that 
has  been  said  about  it,  has  never  been  as  unclean  as 
other  great  cities  of  the  world.  I  am  not  as  familiar 
with  vice  abroad  as  I  have  been  with  what  we  have 
had  in  New  York,  but  I  know  we  have  had  less  than 
London,  Paris,  Vienna,  Berlin,  or  other  big  cities. 


228  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

We  have  been  cleaner,  too,  than  Chicago,  San 
Francisco,  or  other  large  American  cities. 

"There  has,  it  is  true,  been  a  sort  of  house- 
cleaning  in  many  of  our  big  cities,  and,  I  believe, 
a  general  improvement  taking  in  the  cities  of  the 
country  as  a  whole,  but  that  does  not  detract  from 
the  credit  due  Woods.  When  I  was  Commissioner  a 
reform  wave  in  other  cities  usually  sent  the  undesir 
ables  who  were  in  funds  here.  Presumably  that  sort 
of  thing  is  still  the  rule. 

11  These  changed  conditions  make  it  difficult  to 
compare  Woods's  work  with  mine,  but,  on  the  whole, 
he  did  much  better  than  I  did,  and  as  the  friend  of 
both,  you  might  as  well  be  prepared  to  concede  it." 

"I  won't  attempt  to  argue  with  you,  but  did  n't 
he  have  your  work  to  build  on?"  I  asked. 

"I'm  glad  you  made  that  point  —  mighty  glad. 
To  an  extent,  yes,  but  so  did  others  —  General 
Bingham,  and  Waldo,  for  example.  But  only  to  a 
limited  extent.  Had  he  followed  immediately  after 
me,  that  would  be  wholly  true,  but  he  did  not  and 
in  between  much  of  my  work  was  undone.  Could  he 
have  come  in  immediately  I  left,  he  would  have 
done  even  better.  You  see  what  I  mean? 

"Woods  is  the  sort  of  man  I  have  always  said 
should  be  in  that  office  —  he's  a  non-partisan;  no 
politician  had  any  strings  on  him.  To  get  the  best 


POLICE  AND  CITIZENSHIP  229 

results  the  head  of  the  New  York  Police  Department 
should  be  as  nearly  permanent  as  any  public  officer 
ever  is,  and  he  should  be  of  the  same  non-partisan 
type  that  Woods  has  been  while  in  office.  The  theory 
that  a  temporary  Commissioner  can  get  the  best 
results  from  a  permanent  police  force  is  unsound.  It 
is  this  condition  that  was  the  life  of  what  has  been 
called  'the  system/  We've  all  heard  that  'the  sys 
tem'  is  dead.  I  don't  believe  it.  I  don't  believe  Woods 
believes  that.  It  has  not  been  active,  not  been  visible 
to  the  naked  eye  under  Woods,  but  I  think  you'll 
find  it  has  only  been  asleep. 

"Woods  was  a  splendid  executive.  In  all  his  work 
that  I  am  familiar  with  he  made  one  error  that  I 
consider  serious.  That  was  with  Enright  —  now  in 
his  place.  I  told  him,  and  I  maintain  now,  that  it 
was  a  serious  error  of  judgment  on  his  part,  as  it  was 
on  the  part  of  others,  not  to  give  Enright  the  cap 
taincy  his  place  on  the  civil  service  list  entitled  him 
to.  As  I  told  Woods,  the  just  thing  to  do  was  to  give 
him  his  promotion  and  see  what  he  did  with  it.  If 
he  did  not  do  right,  he  could  then  break  him.  I  did 
not  think  his  activity  in  department  politics,  so  long 
as  there  was  nothing  else  provable  against  him, 
should  be  allowed  to  keep  from  him  the  place  that 
it  was  admitted  he  was  competent  to  fill. 

"That  was  bad  judgment,  I  think,  because  it 


230  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

tended  to  make  a  martyr  of  him.  Woods  would  have 
done  better  to  have  tried  other  tactics.  However, 
that  was  a  thing  he  had  to  decide  for  himself. 

"  In  all  other  matters  he  has  done  splendidly.  You 
know  that,  despite  my  tyranny  as  Commissioner,  I 
still  have  many  good  friends  in  the  department.  The 
police,  except  the  crooks  I  made  life  miserable  for, 
have  always  been  friendly  to  me.  What  I  mean  is 
that  I  have  always  retained  the  intimate  friendship 
of  men  who  were  under  me  in  the  department.  These 
men  know  what  is  going  on  and  they  have  all  told 
me  Woods  was  all  right.  They  had  no  complaints 
to  make,  heard  of  none.  They  all  rejoiced  in  the 
absence  of  'pull.'  That  has  been  the  curse  of  the 
department. 

"Under  Woods  the  men  have  felt  free,  they  all 
tell  me,  to  do  their  work  as  it  should  be  done.  They 
have  not  had  to  consider  the  politicians.  This  has 
made  their  work  easier  and  it  has  been  better  for  the 
city.  I  am  not  certain  but  that  the  politicians  like  it. 
It  makes  less  work  for  them,  you  know,  less  asking 
favors,  less  'going  to  the  front '  for  some  scapegrace 
in  trouble.  There  have  been  Tammany  leaders  who 
have  dropped  men  from  their  clubs  as  soon  as  they 
joined  the  police.  This  was  not  done  to  discourage 
men  from  joining  the  force;  these  leaders  would  help 
men  prepare  for  their  civil  service  examination  and 


POLICE  AND  CITIZENSHIP  23! 

that  sort  of  thing,  but  they  quit  there.  They  found 
policemen  retainers  to  be  something  of  a  nuisance 
and  at  times  worse. 

"The  police  of  New  York,  man  for  man,  have 
always  been  a  splendid  lot.  They  have  been  just  as 
honest  as  the  administration  and  the  head  of  the 
department  wished  them  to  be.  There  was  more 
truth  than  poetry  in  what  a  captain  or  inspector  - 
I  think  it  was  Herlihy  —  is  said  to  have  told  Bing- 
ham:  'Put  all  your  cards  on  the  table.  I'm  a  cop 
and  I'll  do  what  I'm  told  to  do;  only  let  me  know 
whether  you  mean  what  you  say  when  you  say  it.' 
It  was  something  like  that.  That  is  the  real  spirit  of 
the  police  —  they'll  be  just  as  honest  as  the  head  of 
the  department  wishes  them  to  be.  If  he's  honest 
and  not  influenced  by  dishonest  politicians,  they  will 
run  straight.  If  dishonesty  is  favored  or  expected, 
the  weaker  ones  most  exposed  to  temptation  will  be 
dishonest. 

"  Woods,  of  course,  was  honest  and  he  was  not 
tempted  or  controlled  by  politicians  and  others. 
Temperamentally  he  was  admirably  fitted  for  the 
place.  Mitchel  left  him  a  free  hand.  Hence  his  suc 
cess. 

"Woods,  by  the  way,  was  one  of  the  very  few  of 
Mitchel's  appointments  that  did  not  weaken  him 
with  the  voter.  He  blundered  with  Woods  in  not 


232  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

making  more  of  his  administration  in  his  campaign 
for  reelection.  It  could  have  been  made  a  very 
strong  point.  Woods  will  do  well  in  the  army,  but, 
personally,  I  would  have  preferred  to  have  him  stay 
at  the  head  of  the  police.  He  would  have  been  of 
vastly  greater  value  to  the  country  there  than  in  the 
army.  The  law,  however,  made  that  impossible. 

"When  he  comes  out  of  the  army  I  expect  he  will 
go  into  some  sort  of  business.  His  great  executive 
ability  will  be  in  demand.  I  do  not  suppose  he  will 
ever  return  to  the  police  department.  He  would 
hardly  care  to,  though  he  never  should  have  been 
allowed  to  leave  it. 

"Some  day  you  may  be  called  upon  for  your  opin 
ion  of  police  commissioners.  If  you  are,  put  Arthur 
Woods  first;  if  you  wish,  and  feel  that  way,  put  me 
second. 

"And  if  any  one  asks  your  authority,  say  I  told 
you  so." 


COLONEL  ROOSEVELT  ON  BOYS 

BETTER  a  boy  you  have  to  rescue  from  a  police 
station  because  he  whipped  a  cab  driver  or  a 
'cop*  than  a  'Miss  Nancy'" — -that  was  Colonel 
Roosevelt's  idea  of  the  kind  of  boy  one  should  have. 

This  preference  Colonel  Roosevelt  expressed  to 
me  one  Sunday  afternoon  at  Oyster  Bay,  following  a 
question  from  him  as  to  how  my  own  boy  was  get 
ting  along. 

''All  right,"  I  replied,  "only  a  little  too  much  foot 
ball  and  swimming  and  not  enough  school-work  — 
almost  too  much  boy." 

"That's  all  right,"  he  replied.  "Don't  let  that 
worry  you.  Do  you  know  you  are  fortunate  in  having 
a  real  boy?  Some  of  the  most  splendid  fellows  I  know 
have  boys  that  if  they  were  mine  I  'd  want  to  choke 
them  —  pretty  boys  who  know  all  of  the  latest  tango 
steps  and  the  small  talk,  and  the  latest  things  in 
socks  and  ties  —  tame  cats,  mollycoddles,  and  their 
fathers  real  men,  and  their  mothers  most  excellent 
women!  Throw-backs,  I  suppose.  I'd  feel  disgraced 
beyond  redemption  had  I  such  boys. 

"Mine,  thank  God,  have  been  good  boys,  a  bit 
mischievous  at  times,  all  of  them,  but  every  boy  is. 
Honestly,  if  I  had  to  take  my  choice,  I  'd  rather  have 


234  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

a  boy  that  I  'd  have  to  go  to  the  police  station  and 
bail  out  for  beating  a  cab  driver  or  a  policeman,  than 
one  of  the  mollycoddle  type.  He  might  worry  me, 
but  he  would  n't  disgrace  me." 

On  another  occasion  when  he  asked  about  my  boy, 
I  said  he  was  in  a  bit  of  trouble. 

"He  has  had  his  first  real  bump,"  I  said.  "He 
flunked  on  his  examinations,  and  probably  will  fail 
to  get  promotion.  Consequently  he  feels  badly." 

"Now,  see  here,"  advised  the  Colonel,  "just  don't 
be  severe  with  him.  Tell  him  I  said,  as  an  indulgent 
grandparent,  that  it  really  is  not  such  a  serious  thing. 
You  just  tell  him  that  for  me  and  just  make  him  feel 
more  than  ever  that  his  father  is  his  best  friend  and 
understands  all  about  such  things." 

"I  have  wired  him  as  much,"  I  said. 

"That's  fine,"  said  he.  "You  are  on  the  right 
track.  Sometimes  we  fathers  do  not  realize  how  im 
portant  such  things  may  be  and  we  do  not  always  do 
the  right  thing.  We  can  become  excited  about  some 
thing  and  chastise  or  severely  lecture  a  boy  and  make 
him  afraid  of  us  or  we  can  sit  down  with  him,  man 
fashion,  and  reason  the  thing  out.  Sometimes,  I  grant 
you,  chastisement  is  exactly  what  a  boy  needs  most. 
Then  he  should  have  it.  But  when  a  boy 's  in  trouble 
as  your  lad  is  over  something  that  really  involves  at 
most  only  carelessness,  it  often  is  a  mistake  to  do 


COLONEL  ROOSEVELT  ON  BOYS     235 

anything  more  than  point  out  to  him  what  a  foolish 
fellow  he's  been  and  try  to  plan  out  some  way  in 
which  he,  not  you,  can  undo  the  mischief. 

"In  other  words,  every  boy  thinks  his  father  is  a 
pretty  big  man.  One  of  mine  told  a  teacher  once  his 
father  was  'it.'  That  confidence  is  something  no  man 
can  afford  to  lose,  and  if  he  can  make  his  boy  see 
that  the  thing  to  do  is  to  go  to  his  father  with  his 
troubles,  he  has  a  pretty  good  guarantee  that  the 
boy  won't  get  into  any  very  serious  messes.  On  the 
other  hand,  if  the  boy  knows  that  he  is  going  to  get 
a  dressing-down  every  time  his  parent  hears  of  some 
venial  sin  of  omission  or  commission,  boylike,  he's 
going  to  try  and  conceal  as  much  as  he  can.  He  will, 
however,  get  advice  abroad  if  he  does  not  get  it  at 
home,  and  he's  mighty  lucky  if  the  kind  he  gets 
abroad  is  the  kind  he  should  have. 

"That's  why  many  a  boy  goes  wrong  who  other 
wise  would  in  all  probability  have  gone  straight  as  H. 

"Yes,  sir,  it's  a  mighty  bad  thing  for  a  boy  when 
he  becomes  afraid  to  go  to  his  father  with  his  troubles, 
and  it 's  mighty  bad  for  a  father  when  he  becomes  so 
busy  with  other  affairs,  that  he  has  no  time  for  the 
affairs  of  his  children. 

"I  had  a  friend  lament  to  me  once  over  the  fact 
that  his  boy  was  wild  and  was  constantly  getting 
into  scrapes.  He  was  absolutely  out  of  control,  the 


236  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

father  said,  and  he  could  do  nothing  with  him.  I 
knew  the  boy  and  liked  him.  He  was  a  clean-cut,  up 
standing  chap  —  the  kind  that  looks  you  straight  in 
the  eye  when  he  talks  to  you  and  shakes  hands  as 
though  he  meant  it.  I  did  not  believe  there  was  any 
thing  very  wrong  about  the  boy,  and  said  so.  Finally, 
the  father  asked  me  if  I  would  n't  talk  to  the  boy. 
I  said  I  would. 

' i  I  '11  send  him  to  you  to-morrow/  he  said. 

'"No,  you  won't,'  said  I.  'You  say  the  boy  won't 
listen  to  you.  Let  me  handle  him  in  my  own  way/ 

"Well,  I  saw  the  boy,  and  asked  him  what  all  the 
reports  I  was  hearing  meant.  There  was  n't  anything 
serious,  anything  involving  meanness  or  unmanli- 
ness  —  the  trouble  was  mainly  misdirected  energy. 
We  talked  things  over  —  the  boy  doing  most  of  the 
talking  —  and,  well,  finally  I  advised  him  to  make 
up  with  his  father.  I  forgot  to  say  he  had  left  home 
and  gone  to  live  with  a  maternal  relative. 

"'Not  much,  Colonel,'  said  he.  'If  I  go  to  the 
Governor,  he  '11  explode.  He  explodes  every  time  the 
least  thing  not  on  the  schedule  happens.  It's  been 
that  way  ever  since  I  was  a  kid.  He's  never  given 
me  a  chance  to  tell  my  story  —  no  matter  what  hap 
pens,  I'm  always  wrong,  I'm  always  to  blame.  It's 
always  been  that  way.' 

"  I  told  him  that  might  be  so,  that  it  probably  was 


COLONEL  ROOSEVELT  ON  BOYS     237 

so,  but  that  he  should  see  his  father  anyway,  and 
try  and  reach  an  understanding. l  You  may  not  agree 
with  me/  I  told  him,  'but  your  father's  your  best 
friend.  You  're  more  to  him  than  all  the  rest  of  the 
world.' 

'"You  may  be  right,  Colonel,'  said  the  boy,  'but 
I  wish  he'd  take  some  other  way  of  showing  it.' 

"Then  I  sent  for  the  father.  I  told  him  what  the 
boy  had  said.  I  told  him  some  things  on  my  own 
account.  He  did  not  like  them  and  came  back  at  me 
—  exploded  just  as  the  boy  said  he  did  with  him. 
We  were  old  friends  and  I  did  not  mind  that;  in  fact, 
as  I  look  back,  I  rather  enjoyed  it.  At  any  rate,  I 
let  him  blow  off  steam.  I  knew  he  'd  feel  ashamed  of 
himself  when  he  paused  for  breath.  Then  I  said  some 
things  to  him. 

"'If  you  talk  to  your  boy  the  way  you've  been 
talking  here,'  said  I,  '  I  don't  wonder  he's  left  home. 
I  marvel  that  he  did  n't  do  it  before  he  came  of  age, 
that  he  did  n't  run  away  or  get  into  some  scrape  he  'd 
never  get  over.  He 's  got  more  in  him  than  I  thought 
he  had.  Now  you  go  and  get  acquainted  with  him. 
Don't  think  you've  got  to  eat  a  lot  of  crow  —  the 
boy  would  n't  like  that.  Meet  him  halfway,  and  let 
him  see  you  are  his  friend.  Go  away  for  a  week's 
fishing  with  him  —  it  will  do  you  both  good.  Why, 
man,  all  this  trouble  you  Ve  brought  on  yourself  — 


238  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

you  don't  appreciate  even  now  that  your  boy  is  a 
man  —  you  Ve  been  too  busy  making  money  to  have 
paid  much  attention  to  him.' 

"It  was  strong  medicine  and  the  old  fellow  did  not 
like  it,  though  he  swallowed  it.  He  never  referred  to 
the  matter  again,  but  the  boy  did. 

"'Colonel,'  said  he,  one  day  after  his  father  had 
sort  of  taken  him  into  partnership,  'you  must  have 
talked  turkey  to  the  Governor  —  he  has  n't  been 
the  same  man  since.' 

'" Young  man,'  said  I,  'all  I  told  him  was  to  get 
acquainted  with  you,  just  as  I  told  you  to  get  ac 
quainted  with  him.  You  folks  simply  did  not  know 
one  another.' 

"That,"  he  concluded,  "is  the  advice  I'd  give 
every  father  of  a  boy  —  get  acquainted  with  him." 


HIS  BOYS'  CRITICS 

THE  important  thing,"  Colonel  Roosevelt  used 
to  say  to  those  who  sought  advice  on  going 
into  the  war,  "is  to  get  into  the  game.  Get  in  as  you 
would  like  to  get  in  if  you  can,  but  get  in!" 

One  of  the  Roosevelt  boys  —  Kermit  —  "got  in" 
via  a  commission  in  the  British  army  from  which  he 
later  transferred  to  Pershing's  forces.  Kermit's  enter 
ing  the  service  of  another  power  aroused  some  criti 
cism  from  Sinn  Fein  and  pro-German  sources.  These 
declared  it  to  be  unpatriotic  for  an  ex- President's  son 
to  serve  under  the  flag  of  another  country,  criticism 
which  aroused  the  Colonel's  ire. 

"  I  do  not  care  a  hang  how  or  where  my  boys  or 
any  other  man's  boys  fight,  so  long  as  they  do  fight," 
he  declared.  "The  important  thing  is  that  they  are 
fighting  and  that  they  are  fighting  Germany. 

"Three  of  my  boys  are  in  the  American  army  and 
in  American  uniforms.  This  one  is  going  to  fight  in  a 
British  uniform.  It  does  not  make  any  difference  to 
me  what  uniform  they  fight  in.  The  main  point  is 
they  are  fighting,  and  I  don't  care  a  continental 
whether  they  fight  in  Yankee  uniforms  or  British 
uniforms  or  in  their  nightshirts,  so  long  as  they  are 
fighting.  That 's  the  main  point  —  they  are  fighting." 


240  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

Just  the  same  the  departure  of  the  boys  had  its 
effect  on  the  Colonel.  He  was  more  thoughtful  and 
at  times  gave  little  hints  that  he  dared  not  hope  to 
see  them  all  again.  Better  than  most  men,  he  realized 
that  war  means  death,  and  that  modern  war  justifies 
Sherman's  famous  saying. 

"Those  infernal  jacks!"  he  declared  one  day, 
"  criticizing  me  for  allowing  my  boy  to  go  into  the 
British  army  and  talking  as  though  I  permitted  my 
boys  to  go  to  war  for  the  personal  glory  that  might 
come  to  me!  The  infernal  jacks  do  not  know  what 
modern  war  is  like!  They  do  not  know  what  shell- 
fire  is  like! 

"  It  is  n't  pleasant  for  me  or  any  other  father,  who 
knows  the  fearful  things  a  high-explosive  shell  will 
do,  to  think  of  his  boys  being  exposed  to  them  —  to 
think  that  at  the  moment  they  may  be  lying  disem 
bowelled  in  No  Man's  Land,  but  that  is  war.  I  hope 
and  pray  that  they  '11  all  come  back,  but  before  God, 
I  'd  rather  none  came  back  than  one,  able  to  go,  had 
stayed  at  home.  I  pray  God  will  send  them  back  to 
me  safe  and  sound,  but  in  my  heart  I  know  it  is 
almost  too  much  for  me  to  hope  for.  I  know  my 
boys.  I  know  they  will  do  their  part.  That  means 
danger. 

"I  miss  them,  their  mother  misses  them,  their 
wives  miss  them.  But  let  me  tell  you  their  wives  are 


HIS  BOYS'  CRITICS  241 

bricks  —  every  one  of  them.  They  are  splendid  — 
just  as  splendid  as  their  mother.  I  tell  you  I  have 
been  blessed  not  only  in  my  boys,  but  in  the  young 
women  my  boys  chose  for  wives.  And  that  goes  for 
my  one  son-in-law  that  is  able  to  fight.  Dick  Derby 
is  a  splendid  fellow  and  I  am  as  fond  of  him  and  as 
proud  of  him  as  I  am  of  my  blood  sons." 

Again,  an  Oklahoma  editor  aroused  his  ire  by 
charging  editorially  that  "Roosevelt's  boys  were 
enjoying  soft  snaps  in  safe  berths."  A  rival  editor 
wired  the  attack  to  the  Colonel  with  a  request  for 
an  answer. 

"The  infernal  cur!"  he  snapped  when  he  read  the 
wire;  "the  infernal  cur  who  dares  say  that  my  boys, 
every  one  of  them  in  combat  service,  have  shirked 
their  duty  with  the  aid  of  my  supposed  influence. 
The  infernal  cur  —  how  dare  he  say  that  of  an 
American  father!  That  man's  a  ghoul!  I  won't  dig 
nify  him  by  replying  to  his  contemptible  attack, 
but  I  'd  like  to  have  him  here  for  just  three  minutes! 
He  'd  wish  he  was  in  a  front-line  trench  or  some  other 
comfortable  place.  The  infernal  cur!" 

The  Colonel  was  "mad"  from  "toes  to  topknot," 
but  in  a  moment  he  relaxed  a  bit. 

"I'm  foolish,  I  suppose,"  said  he,  "to  allow  a 
creature  like  that  to  annoy  me,  but  —  well,  God  had 
a  reason  for  everything  he  created,  and  I  suppose  he 


242  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

created  fellows  like  this  that  we  might  the  better 
appreciate  the  decency  in  the  great,  big,  preponder 
ating  majority/' 

It  was  on  his  boys  —  and  girls  —  that  his  mind 
was  in  the  dark  days  of  February,  1918,  when  he 
was  near  to  death  in  Roosevelt  Hospital. 

"  You  had  us  worried,"  I  told  him  on  my  first  visit 
to  the  convalescent  room. 

"Well,"  said  he,  "I  was  not  worried  about  myself. 
I  was  not  thinking  of  myself.  I  was  thinking  of  my 
four  boys.  I  tell  you  I  am  mighty  proud  of  my  boys 
and"  —  after  a  momentary  pause  —  "just  as  proud 
of  my  two  fine  girls." 

This  pride  in  the  boys  became  more  and  more 
manifest  as  reports  began  to  come  back  from  the 
front  of  their  valor.  Always  affable  to  strangers,  he 
fairly  beamed  • —  that  is  the  best  way  to  describe  it 
—  at  the  visitor  who  asked,  " How's  the  boys?" 

Sometimes  the  question  would  come  from  some 
one  in  a  crowd,  as  in  St.  Louis,  where,  answering  it, 
he  made  ten  thousand  laugh. 

"  I  met  Peter  Dunne  the  other  day,"  he  said.  "You 
all  know  Peter  Dunne  —  Mr.  Dooley,  you  know. 
Well,  Dunne  said:  'Colonel,  you  want  to  watch  out. 
The  first  thing  you  know  they  '11  be  putting  the  name 
of  Roosevelt  on  the  map." 

He  enjoyed  the  story  and  the  laughs  it  raised,  but 


HIS  BOYS'  CRITICS  243 

he  was  never  without  the  thought  that  the  boys  were 
in  danger. 

"Gray  was  right,"  he  said,  when  Ted,  Jr.,  was  in 
a  hospital.  "You  remember  his  line,  'the  paths  of 
glory  lead  but  to  the  grave'?  He  is  not  dangerously 
hurt,  but  I  cannot  expect  all  will  escape,  I  can  only 
hope." 

The  end  of  the  hope  that  all  would  return  came  to 
the  Colonel  one  July  night  at  Sagamore  Hill.  Phil 
Thompson,  the  resident  correspondent  at  Oyster 
Bay,  had  called  to  ask  about  various  matters,  among 
them  a  cable  message  to  the  New  York  Sun  from 
Raymond  G.  Carroll,  one  of  its  men  at  the  front. 
This,  Thompson  mentioned  last. 

"I  have  here,"  he  told  him,  "a  cable  message  to 
the  Sun.  The  censor  has  cut  it  some,  so  that  it  is 
blind.  It  reads,  'Watch  Oyster  Bay  for/  Have  you 
any  idea  what  it  means?" 

"Something  has  happened  to  one  of  the  boys," 
he  answered.  "It  cannot  be  Ted  and  it  cannot  be 
Archie,  for  both  are  recovering  from  wounds.  It  is 
not  Kermit,  for  he's  not  in  the  danger  zone  at  the 
moment.  So  it  must  be  Quentin.  However,  we  must 
say  nothing  of  this  to  his  mother  to-night." 

Confirmation  of  his  fears  came  early  the  next 
morning.  The  Colonel  took  the  blow  exactly  as  one 
would  expect  him  to. 


244  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

"I  must  tell  his  mother/'  he  said. 

A  few  minutes  later  he  gave  to  Thompson  the  won 
derful  comment,  expressing  the  joy  of  Quentin's 
parents  that  he  had  had  his  chance  to  do  his  bit 
before  he  was  called  to  go. 

The  next  day  the  Colonel  kept  an  engagement  to 
speak  at  the  Republican  Convention  in  Saratoga. 

"It  is  my  duty  to  go  there/'  he  said. 

To  the  stranger  Colonel  Roosevelt  gave  no  sign 
of  his  bitter  affliction.  Those  who  knew  him  best  saw, 
however,  that  the  blow  had  slowed  him  down.  Not 
that  he  paraded  his  grief  —  even  to  them.  That  grief 
was  a  secret,  sacred  thing  —  to  be  exhibited  to  none. 

Not  long  after,  Captain  Archie,  crippled  in  arm 
and  leg,  came  home.  His  coming  gave  the  Colonel 
relief,  for  the  young  man  was  in  much  better  shape 
than  had  been  anticipated,  and  the  doctors  were 
strong  in  assurances  that  his  recovery  would  be 
nearly  if  not  quite  complete.  When  he  was  well 
enough  to  leave  the  hospital,  he  and  the  Colonel 
"chummed"  about  town  and  Oyster  Bay. 

"Colonel,"  I  said  in  the  Harvard  Club  one  day, 
"Archie  is  making  splendid  progress.  I  just  saw  him 
running  down  the  street.  He  runs  as  well  as  any  boy. 
I  congratulate  you." 

"Thank  you,  Jack,"  he  replied.  "The  surgeons 
are  working  wonders.  In  the  early  days  of  the  war 


COLONEL  ROOSEVELT  AND  DR.  MASON  EXAMINING  SHRAPNEL 
WHICH  WOUNDED  ARCHIE  ROOSEVELT 


HIS  BOYS'  CRITICS  245 

he'd  have  lost  arm  and  leg  if  not  his  life.  As  it  is, 
he's  coming  around  splendidly. 

11  And  Ted  —  I  Ve  just  had  a  letter  from  a  regular 
army  officer  who  says  Ted's  as  good  an  officer  as 
there  is  in  the  regular  establishment.  He 's  been  made 
a  lieutenant-colonel,  you  know.  Is  n't  that  fine?  And 
Kermit's  doing  well  too." 

But  the  dead  boy  —  the  eagle  whose  fall  had  hurt 
him  to  the  heart  —  he  did  not  mention. 


OUR  SOLDIER  DEAD  IN  FRANCE 

EARLY  in  1918  Colonel  Roosevelt  anticipated 
propaganda  after  the  war  might  cease  for  the 
return  of  the  bodies  of  American  soldiers  who  died 
in  France.  The  idea  did  not  appeal  to  him,  any  more 
than  did  the  policy  of  the  quartermaster's  depart 
ment  of  the  army  in  using  valuable  cargo  space  to 
send  coffins  abroad  to  the  exclusion  of  other  articles. 

"They  are,"  said  he,  "sending  coffins  over,  though 
they  are  short  of  shoes.  They  have  sent  twenty  thou 
sand  over.  It  is  all  very  well  to  show  respect  for  the 
dead,  but  it  would  be  far  better  to  care  for  the  boys 
while  they  are  alive.  This  cargo  space  should  have 
been  used  for  shoes  and  other  supplies.  I  know  they 
are  short  of  shoes  for  I  have  helped  provide  fifteen 
hundred  pair  myself,  for  men  who  have  had  no  shoes 
issued  to  them  since  August. 

"This  shipping  of  coffins  is  part  of  a  general 
scheme  to  send  all  our  dead  home,  paving  a  way  for 
a  demand  after  the  war  that  this  be  done.  It  will  not 
be  practical,  but  there  probably  will  be  an  attempt 
to  play  on  the  heart-strings  of  relatives.  This  is  prob 
ably  not  in  the  minds  of  whoever  is  responsible  for 
sending  these  boxes  over  now  —  somebody  is  prob- 


OUR  SOLDIER  DEAD  IN  FRANCE     247 

ably  following  some  musty  rule  in  the  department  — 
but  that  will  be  the  effect. 

"If  any  of  mine  are  killed  over  there,  I  shall  op 
pose  disturbing  their  graves  when  peace  comes.  They 
should  rest,  and  if  I  have  anything  to  say  about  it, 
they  will  rest,  where  they  may  fall.'* 

Months  after,  Quentin,  the  Eagle,  fell.  Not  long 
after  his  death  —  about  three  months  —  I  was 
asked  to  give  my  associates  a  letter  the  Colonel  had 
addressed  to  Major-General  Crowder  requesting  in 
the  name  of  Mrs.  Roosevelt  and  himself  that  the 
body  not  be  sent  home.  It  was  in  this  letter, 
prompted  by  a  Washington  despatch  to  the  effect 
that  all  bodies  were  to  be  returned,  that  he  quoted 
the  line:  "Where  the  tree  falls,  there  let  it  lie." 

The  correspondence  attracted  a  great  deal  of 
attention.  Most  of  it  that  came  to  my  notice  was 
favorable  to  the  position  he  had  taken,  and  I  told 
him  so. 

"It  is  the  course  I  believe  sensible  people  gener 
ally  will  approve  of,"  he  said.  "To  me  it  is  painful 
to  think  that  long  after  death  the  poor  broken  body 
would  be  taken  from  what  should  be  its  resting-place, 
and  moved  thousands  of  miles.  To  me  it  does  not 
seem  fitting.  Nor  does  it  seem  desirable  to  reopen  old 
wounds  of  the  living.  These  will  never  fully  heal,  they 
will  always  hurt,  but  they  should  not  be  torn  open. 


348  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

"I  know  that  many  good  people  who  have  lost 
sons  and  brothers  and  husbands  will  not  agree  with 
Mrs.  Roosevelt  and  me.  I  understand  their  position 
and  respect  their  feelings.  But  I  am  very  much  afraid 
others  will  not,  and  will  try  to  play  upon  those  feel 
ings  for  profit  in  one  form  or  another. 

"  It  was  to  help  these  good  people  and  others  who 
may  be  wavering  that  I  asked  you  to  make  public 
my  wishes  in  so  far  as  our  boy's  body  is  concerned. 
I  had  thought  my  example  might  have  some  influ 
ence  in  the  matter,  just  as  I  feel  that  had  Mrs. Roose 
velt  and  I  taken  an  opposite  position,  others  would 
have  very  properly  demanded  like  action  in  their 
own  cases. 

"Personally,  I  am  more  concerned  in  the  living 
than  in  the  dead.  We  cannot  forget  our  dead,  but  we 
must  live  for  the  living.  We  should  insist  on  proper 
respect  for  our  dead  —  France  will  see  to  that  — 
and  if  we  have  any  energy  to  expend,  use  it  caring 
for  the  soldier  who  comes  back  maimed  or  for  the 
dependents  of  those  who  do  not  come  back  at  all. 

"Where  the  bodies  are  returned,  if  they  are  re 
turned,  there  will  be  a  lot  of  attention  paid  to  the 
first  returned.  There  will  be  public  funerals.  There 
will  be  calls  on  the  purses  of  relatives,  too  poor  to 
spare  the  money,  for  more  elaborate  stones  than  the 
Government  will  provide.  Then  for  a  time,  while 


OUR  SOLDIER  DEAD  IN  FRANCE     249 

parents  or  wife  lives,  their  graves  will  be  well  taken 
care  of.  After  that  —  comparative  neglect.  You  and 
I  have  seen  that  in  the  graves  of  soldiers  of  other 
wars  —  a  little  attention  one  day  in  the  year,  and 
no  more.  It  is  bound  to  work  out  that  way  as  fam 
ilies  die  out  and  move  away.  How  different  in  the 
national  cemeteries  or  in  the  soldiers'  lots  in  our 
larger  city  cemeteries! 

"Crowder's  letter  shows  what  I  expected,  that  in 
planning  as  it  has  the  department  is  following  rules 
laid  down  at  the  time  of  our  war  with  Spain.  In  that 
war,  and  in  the  Philippine  insurrection  that  followed, 
we  lost  fewer  men  than  we  have  lost  in  a  single  day 
in  this  war. 

"I  recall  one  after  tragedy  of  the  Philippines  I 
was  told  about  in  a  Western  town.  It  was  a  small 
place,  and  one  of  the  town  boys  was  killed  some 
where  in  Luzon.  His  body  was  brought  home  and  the 
townspeople  spent  several  hundred  dollars  to  erect 
a  monument  over  his  grave.  When  I  was  in  the  town 
I  met  his  mother,  whose  support  he  had  been.  She 
was  earning  her  living  sewing.  How  much  better  it 
would  have  been  if  that  boy's  body  were  left  where 
he  fell,  and  the  money  spent  on  his  monument  spent 
on  his  mother! 

"It  will  be  far  better  to  leave  our  dead  in  great 
cemeteries  over  there,  places  like  beautiful  Arlington 


250  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

or  our  other  national  cemeteries  at  home.  There  the 
graves  will  be  well  cared  for,  our  dead  will  sleep,  as 
I  believe  they  would  prefer,  among  their  comrades, 
and  these  shrines  will  be,  if  I  might  use  the  expres 
sion,  not  a  link,  but  rivets  in  the  chain  that  binds 
us  to  our  allies,  and  our  allies  to  us. 

"  Rupert  Brooke,  you  will  remember,  wrote  that 
wherever  his  body  might  rest  would  forever  be  a  bit 
of  England.  Just  so,  wherever  our  boys  sleep  will  be 
forever  American  soil.  They  willed  it  so." 


MAKING  PEACE  WITH  GOMPERS 

AJL  the  world  knows  that  soon  after  the  East 
St.  Louis  race  riots,  Colonel  Roosevelt  and 
Samuel  Gompers  all  but  came  to  blows  on  the  stage 
of  Carnegie  Hall,  New  York.  Few,  however,  knew 
that  at  the  time  of  Roosevelt's  death  he  and  Gom 
pers  were  friends. 

They  shook  hands,  so  to  speak,  on  the  ques 
tion  of  Americanism,  Colonel  Roosevelt  making  the 
advances. 

The  peacemaking  came  about  in  this  way.  Gom 
pers,  at  the  American  Federation  of  Labor  Conven 
tion  of  1917  in  Buffalo,  faced  the  fight  of  his  life  with 
pro-Germans  and  pacifists  within  the  labor  move 
ment  who  hoped  to  put  the  Federation  on  record  as 
opposing  the  War  and  the  national  programme  for 
prosecuting  it  to  a  successful  finish.  Days  before  the 
convention  met,  "S.O.S."  calls  were  flashing  to  all 
who  might  help  hold  the  fort.  Among  those  who 
responded,  it  will  be  recalled,  was  President  Wilson, 
but  even  after  his  visit,  the  situation  was  tense  up 
to  the  moment  the  convention  adjourned. 

More  than  that,  adjournment  left  all  hands  with 
a  realizing  sense  that,  however  emphatic  the  defeat 
of  the  anti-war  group  had  been,  it  was  still  an  ele- 


252  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

ment  of  great  potential  danger,  and  that  the  situa 
tion  was  anything  but  pleasant  from  the  standpoint 
of  one  hundred  per  cent  Americanism.  This  I  sought 
to  make  clear  in  a  long  report  I  submitted  to  Colonel 
Roosevelt  at  his  request,  accompanying  it  with  an 
oral  explanation. 

"Gompers,"  I  told  the  Colonel,  "has  his  back  to 
the  wall.  He  may  need  help,  and  need  it  badly,  at 
any  time." 

"But,"  said  he,  "he  has  been  playing  Wilson's 
game." 

" I  know  that,"  I  replied,  "but  just  now  he's  play 
ing  our  game,  the  one  hundred  per  cent  American 
game.  And  he  may  need  help." 

"What  can  I  do  to  help?"  he  asked. 

"Not  a  thing  now,"  I  replied,  "but  the  time  may 
come  later  when  you  can  help." 

"Very  well.  Does  Gompers  know  you  were  to  take 
this  matter  up  with  me?  Have  you  discussed  this 
matter  with  him?" 

I  replied  that  I  had  not. 

"There  was  nothing  I  could  say,"  I  replied,  "and 
no  occasion  for  me  to  say  anything,  anyway." 

"All  right,"  said  the  Colonel.  "As  you  say, 
Gompers  is  playing  a  straight  American  game.  In 
that  he  should  have  every  help.  I  do  not  take  back 
any  word  I  have  ever  said  about  him,  and  I  don't 


MAKING  PEACE  WITH  GOMPERS    253 

care  whether  he  takes  back  anything  he  has  said 
about  me  or  not.  We  can  agree  and  do  agree  on 
Americanism. 

"Now,  you  go  to  him  and  say  to  him  for  me  that 
if  there  is  anything  I  can  say  or  do  to  help  him  in  this 
fight,  to  let  me  know,  and  I  will  do  it.  Make  it  clear 
to  him  that  you  have  told  me  the  kind  of  fight  that 
is  being  made  on  him  because  of  his  Americanism, 
and  say  to  him  that  whatever  differences  we  may 
have  had  in  the  past  or  may  have  in  the  future,  I  am 
with  him  in  this  fight.  It  won't  embarrass  you  to  do 
that?" 

"Not  at  all,"  said  I.  "It  is  what  I  expected." 

"All  right,  go  ahead.  Now,  make  it  clear  to 
Gompers  that  it  is  not  going  to  be  necessary  for  him 
to  come  to  me  or  to  write  to  me.  You  can  see  where 
that  might  be  impossible,  might  embarrass  him.  If 
he  wishes  to  come,  all  right,  let  him  come;  but  if  he 
prefers,  let  him  send  any  message  he  wishes  through 
you  or  somebody  else  we  both  know  and  I  will  attend 
to  the  matter." 

It  was  ten  days  before  I  had  an  opportunity  to 
deliver  my  message  to  Gompers.  When  I  did  deliver 
it,  he  was  as  pleased  a  man  as  I  have  ever  seen. 

"Did  Mr.  Roosevelt  really  say  that?"  he  inter 
rupted,  when  I  had  given  him  but  part  of  the  mes 
sage. 


254  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

"He  certainly  did,"  I  replied.  "Furthermore, 
when  you  want  him,  write  direct  if  you  wish,  or,  if 
you  prefer,  send  for  me  and  I  will  arrange  a  meeting. 
If  that  is  not  advisable,  send  some  one  else  the 
Colonel  knows,  or  you  may,  if  you  wish,  send  any 
message  through  me.  These  are  the  Colonel's  in 
structions  —  he  wants  you  to  feel  free  to  call  on  him 
for  any  help  he  may  be  able  to  give." 

"That  certainly  is  very  fine  of  the  old  man,"  said 
Gompers.  "You  may  go  to  him  and  tell  him  for  me 
that  I  thank  him  from  the  bottom  of  my  heart,  that 
I  do  appreciate  his  offer  and  why  it  is  made  and  that 
I  shall  not  forget  his  offer  if  the  occasion  requires. 
Is  it  all  right  to  tell  this  to  Perham?" 

Perham  (H.  B.),  a  vice-president  of  the  A.  F.  of  L. 
and  chief  of  the  Order  of  Railroad  Telegraphers,  was 
standing  near.  I  saw  no  reason  why  he  and  others  in 
Gompers's  confidence  should  not  be  told,  and  said  so. 

"The  men  on  whom  you  rely  to  help  you  make 
your  fight  should  know,"  I  said.  "The  Colonel  said 
nothing  about  secrecy,  and  would,  I  think,  prefer 
that  they  should  know." 

"  Henry,"  called  Gompers  to  Perham,  "  this  young 
man  has  just  given  me  a  most  pleasing  message. 
Colonel  Roosevelt  offers  any  help  he  may  be  able  to 
give  in  fighting  these  scoundrels;  we're  to  call  on 
him  any  time.  Is  n't  that  fine?" 


MAKING  PEACE  WITH  GOMPERS    255 

Perham,  slow  of  speech,  agreed  that  it  was, 
adding: 

"But  why  should  n't  he?  —  you  are  both  in  the 
same  fight." 

"Yes,  Henry,"  said  Gompers,  "but  you  must 
remember  Roosevelt  and  I  have  not  been  very 
friendly.  You  must  know  that  men  —  and  I  include 
the  big  ones  —  do  not  always  do  exactly  what  they 
should  do." 

So  ended  the  Gompers-Roosevelt  feud  —  if  feud  it 
could  be  called. 


HENRY  FORD  AND  MARK  HANNA 

MARK  HANNA  died  long  before  Henry  Ford 
arose  above  the  horizon  of  obscurity.  This 
did  not  prevent  the  Colonel  from  telling  a  Hanna 
story  to  illustrate  an  opinion  he  held  of  the  man 
made  famous  and  wealthy  by  the  "flivver/* 

"Hanna,"  said  the  Colonel,  "sent  Bunau-Varilla, 
the  French  engineer,  to  see  me  about  the  Panama 
Canal.  Later  I  saw  Hanna  and  told  him  I  could  do 
nothing  with  the  man. 

"'Why/  said  I,  'that  man  would  instruct  Cos 
mos/ 

"'Never  mind  Cosmos/  said  Hanna.  'Cromwell's 
the  man  for  you  to  listen  to/  He  meant  William 
Nelson  Cromwell,  the  New  York  lawyer. 

"  Now  Ford  is  a  pretty  good  man  for  making  cheap 
automobiles.  He  makes  a  good  car  for  the  money, 
and  in  his  sphere  has  done  a  very  good  work.  But  he 
won't  stick  to  his  sphere.  He  would  instruct  Cosmos. 

"It  would  not  be  so  bad  if  he  knew  anything  about 
the  matters  outside  of  automobiles  that  he  attempts 
to  manage  and  direct.  He  does  not  seem  to  have  the 
faintest  idea  of  American  history,  or  any  history  for 
that  matter;  he  knows  nothing  of  world  politics,  yet 
he  sets  himself  up,  with  the  aid  of  an  army  of  press 


HENRY  FORD  AND  MARK  HANNA    257 

agents,  as  the  man  who  must  teach  everybody.  He 
has  no  conception  of  what  we  mean  by  Americanism 
and  has  an  extreme  idea  of  the  importance  and 
power  of  his  money.  He  is  ignorant,  yet  because  he 
has  been  so  successful  in  motors,  many,  many  per 
sons,  hardly  as  ignorant  as  himself,  think  him  wise 
in  all  things  and  allow  him  to  influence  their  views. 

"  Henry,  like  Barnum,  has  been  a  great  advertiser. 
I  do  not  say  his  peace  ship  was  an  advertising  dodge 
—  I  will  give  him  credit  for  being  sincere  there  — 
but  I  won't  say  that  he  has  not  been  given  credit  for 
a  lot  of  philanthropy  that  was  merely  good  business. 
Other  of  his  schemes  given  much  publicity  are  imag 
inings  that  in  others  would  attract  no  attention. 

"He  and  his  son  Edsoll  make  a  precious  pair.  The 
exempting  of  that  young  man  was  a  glaring  bit  of 
injustice.  Had  I  had  my  way,  he'd  have  gone  into 
the  trenches  and  taken  his  chances  just  as  any  poor 
man's  son  had  to  go  and  take  his  chances.  Instead, 
he  is  safe  in  Detroit.  Cases  like  his  make  fine  material 
for  demagogues  who  try  to  tell  the  ignorant  this  is  a 
government  for  rich  men. 

"Most  rich  men's  sons  are  doing  their  duty.  You 
see  that  around  the  clubs.  The  only  young  men  you 
see  there  are  in  uniform. 

"By  the  way,  I  saw  two  things  the  other  after 
noon  that  made  me  proud  of  New  York.  I  had  been 


258  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

up  Westchester  way.  Motoring  in,  I  saw  a  little 
service  flag  on  a  very  poor  house  —  more  of  a  shack. 
A  colored  woman  was  in  the  doorway  —  it  was  ap 
parently  a  negro  home.  Coming  down  the  avenue 
I  saw  another  little  flag  hanging  out  of  the  window 
of  one  of  the  finest  houses  in  New  York.  It  signified 
that  its  owner,  one  of  America's  wealthiest  young 
men,  had  gone  to  the  front  and  was  doing  his  bit, 
man  fashion,  just  as  the  colored  lad  out  of  that  poor 
home  was  doing. 

"That  kind  of  young  man  is  worth  a  million 
Edsoll  Fords  in  peace  as  well  as  in  war,  for  the  man 
who  does  his  duty  in  war  is  not  likely  to  shirk  in 
peace/' 

The  Fifth  Avenue  home  to  which  the  Colonel  re 
ferred  was  that  of  Vincent  Astor. 


A  TRIBUTE  TO  NURSES 

MORE  so  than  any  other  man  I  have  ever 
known,  Colonel  Roosevelt  was  capable  of 
adjusting  himself  to  circumstances  and  seeing  good 
in  places  where  most  humans  would  see  naught  of 
value.  He  was  a  philosopher  at  all  times. 

When  he  was  recovering  from  the  serious  opera 
tion  of  February,  1918,  I  commented  on  the  fact 
that  his  surroundings  in  Roosevelt  Hospital  were 
comfortable. 

" Indeed  they  are,"  said  he,  "and  every  one  here 
is  splendid.  It  is  almost  worth  while  being  sick  to 
meet  such  people  and  realize  the  work  that  is  done 
in  such  places. 

"Take  the  nurses  —  clean,  healthy  young  women, 
full  of  animal  life  and  youth  and  spirit,  at  just  that 
age  when  they  might  be  excused  if  their  thoughts 
and  their  time  were  devoted  to  pleasure,  in  here 
doing  the  hardest  kind  of  work,  much  of  it  unpleas 
ant,  nearly  all  of  it  depressing,  not  for  pay,  but  be 
cause  they  wish  to  be  of  service,  to  fit  themselves 
for  service. 

"Thank  God,  I'm  not  a  cynic;  I've  always  be 
lieved  in  and  respected  American  womanhood,  but 
I  tell  you,  Jack  Leary,  that  I  leave  here  with  more 


260  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

respect  and  a  better  appreciation  of  what  our  girls 
really  are.  We  are  all  apt  to  take  some  things  for 
granted.  Most  of  us,  until  we  are  forced  into  a  place 
like  this,  never  give  a  thought  to  the  women  who 
give  up  so  much  to  serve. 

"  These  girls  here  are  all  from  good  families.  Some, 
I  am  told,  are  from  what,  for  want  of  a  better  term, 
we  call  our  best  families.  All  have  education  enough 
to  qualify  in  easier,  pleasanter  work,  where  hours 
are  regular  and  there 's  ample  time  for  theatres,  par 
ties,  and  all  that  sort  of  thing  young  folks  love.  They 
serve  a  hard  apprenticeship  and  when  they  graduate, 
go  out  to  do  work  that  more  often  than  not  is  as  un 
pleasant  as  any  in  the  training  period.  They  are  not 
well  paid,  and  are  about  as  casual  in  their  employ 
ment,  many  of  them,  as  a  day  laborer.  I  suppose  I 
always  knew  that,  but,  as  I  have  said,  I  took  it  for 
granted  as  we  take  many  things,  until  I  came  in  here 
and  had  a  chance  to  think.  Honestly  I  feel  as  though 
I  had  had  a  mental  bath. 

"  After  what  I  Ve  seen  here  I  'm  tempted,  the  next 
time  some  half-baked  jack  of  a  preacher  who  cannot 
fill  his  church  any  other  way  cuts  loose  with  an 
attack  on  American  women,  picturing  them  as  brain 
less  butterflies  with  never  a  thought  of  anything  but 
cocktails,  cabarets,  and  dress,  who  are  '  dooming  the 
race '  —  that 's  one  of  their  favorite  declarations  — 


A  TRIBUTE  TO  NURSES  261 

I  'm  tempted  to  take  him  by  the  scruff  of  the  neck 
and  drop  him  in  some  first-class  hospital.  He'll  leave 
with  his  soul  cleaner  and  in  better  working  order 
than  when  he  entered;  that  is,  if  he  has  a  soul  bigger 
than  a  mustard  seed,  and  the  girls  won't  be  damaged 
any  by  his  cluttering  up  the  place  for  a  few  days. 

u  You  did  not  go  to  church  to-day?  I  thought  not. 
Well,  there's  your  sermon.  —  I'm  in  a  sermonizing 
mood  to-day,  so  you  see  I  am  getting  better.  Seri 
ously,  though,  it  does  one  good  to  get  down  to  brass 
tacks  once  in  a  while,  and  if  any  one  ever  asks  you 
what  I  think  of  the  nursing  profession,  you  just  tell 
them  I  said  —  no,  they're  not  angels,  they  are  too 
practical  for  that,  but  trumps  every  one  of  them." 

The  respect  the  Colonel  had  for  the  nurses  was 
reciprocated.  In  his  stays  at  Roosevelt  Hospital  on 
more  than  one  occasion  something  as  close  to  a  row 
as  one  would  expect  in  such  a  place  developed  over 
the  question  as  to  who  should  serve  him.  All  agreed 
he  was  a  model  patient  and  good  in  obeying  orders, 
except  that  he  had  all  of  a  strong  man's  opposition 
to  being  "waited  on."  In  his  sickest  hours  he  always 
insisted  on  trying  to  help  himself. 

One  dour  member  of  Roosevelt's  staff  had  rather 
an  original  way  of  explaining  the  Colonel's  agility 
in  obeying  " orders." 

"The  folks  here  do  not  give  him  orders,"  said  this 


262  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

surgeon.  "They  think  they  do.  He's  just  come  in, 
captivated  everybody  in  the  place,  and  comes  pretty 
near  to  running  things.  It's  what  I  suspect  he  does 
everywhere.  Personally  I  '11  be  glad  when  he  gets  out. 
Why?  Because  the  nurses  and  some  of  the  fool  doc 
tors  here  can  then  think  of  something  beside  Colonel 
Roosevelt." 


WOMAN  IN  OFFICE 

WHY  not?" 
Colonel  Roosevelt  asked  this  question  one 
day  when  a  visitor  jokingly  remarked  that  in  the 
event  of  his  returning  to  the  White  House,  he  might 
have  a  woman  private  secretary.  The  woman  in 
question  was  Miss  Josephine  M.  Strieker,  who  be 
came  attached  to  his  staff  in  the  Bull  Moose  days 
and  was  his  secretary  to  the  end. 

"Miss  Strieker  is  a  perfectly  good  secretary,"  he 
went  on.  "She  is  competent,  faithful,  loyal.  If  she 
is  to  be  criticized  at  all,  it  is  because  she  tries  to  do 
too  much  herself.  Should  I  by  any  chance  return  to 
the  White  House,  I  should  be  glad  to  have  a  secre 
tary  of  her  attainments.  Some  of  the  politicians 
might  not  like  it,  it  might  be  somewhat  embarrassing 
to  them,  and  it  would  be  a  precedent,  but  I  am  sure 
that  if  I  could  stand  it,  and  she  could  stand  the  poli 
ticians,  we  are  about  the  only  persons  who  would 
have  to  be  considered. 

"Come  to  think  of  it,  is  there  any  good  or  valid 
reason  why  ^omen  should  not  have  many  places  we 
are  apt  to  consider  exclusive  male  property?  To  be 
sure,  Jeannette  Rankin  has  shown  a  lack  of  some 
things  to  be  desired  in  a  member  of  Congress,  but 


264  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

have  all  the  male  members  been  so  good?  I  think 
not.  Now  that  women  are  getting  the  ballot,  we  must 
be  prepared  to  see  them  in  many  offices  hitherto 
barred  to  them.  Not  a  few  of  the  most  successful 
men  I  have  known  in  public  life  owe  their  success 
very  largely  to  the  political  sense  of  their  wives. 
Take  Blank.  He  is  a  nice  fellow,  and  I  like  him,  but 
I  would  give  more  for  the  opinion  of  his  wife  on  a 
matter  of  practical  politics  than  I  would  for  his.  It 
comes  natural  to  her  —  she  is  her  father's  daughter. 
Without  her,  I  doubt  very  much  if  her  husband 
would  have  gone  as  far  as  he  has.  With  her,  he  may 
go  farther. 

"I  mention  this  couple  because  you  know  all 
about  them.  Another  man  I  won't  name  had  a  repu 
tation  for  real  conservatism.  He  was  as  conservative 
as  Senator  Allison.  You  remember  that  Allison  sheep 
story  —  where  some  one  remarked  that  a  flock 
seemed  to  be  closely  sheared,  and  he  is  said  to  have 
answered,  '  It  appears  so  from  this  side/  The  man  I 
have  in  mind  was  even  more  conservative  at  times. 
He  always  asked  time  to  think  a  thing  over.  It  did 
not  take  me  long  to  discover  that  if  the  thing  was 
of  any  earthly  consequence,  he  wished  time  to  talk 
it  over  with  his  maiden  sister  —  a  lady  of  the  New 
England  schoolma'am  type. 

"I  am  not  sure  that  any  of  us  would  care  to  see 


WOMAN  IN  OFFICE  265 

women  in  all  public  tasks  —  I  can  think  of  some 
that  I  would  dislike  seeing  any  woman  in  —  but  any 
place  she  can  fill  as  well  as  the  average  man  she  is 
entitled  to.  Therefore,  to  revert,  I  see  no  reason 
why,  if  I  were  again  in  the  White  House,  Miss 
Strieker  would  not  be  a  very  capable  successor  to 
the  Honorable  Joseph  Patrick  Tumulty." 

When  he  was  about  to  leave  the  hospital  after  the 
serious  operation  in  February,  1918,  I  spoke  of  the 
good  work  done  by  Miss  Strieker  while  he  was  so  ill. 

"Mrs.  Roosevelt  may  tell  you  of  this,"  I  added, 
"but  there  are  lots  of  things  she  has  not  known 
about,  I  imagine." 

"Miss  Strieker  is  a  trump  —  a  splendid  woman 
and  an  excellent  secretary.  Her  handling  of  various 
matters  that  have  arisen  since  I  came  here  and  when 
she  had  to  depend  on  her  own  judgment  has  been 
splendid  —  she  has  been  very  tactful  in  some  very 
delicate  matters.  I  know  that  some  of  my  friends  do 
not  exactly  swear  by  her  —  they  may  swear  at  her 
behind  her  back  —  but  that  can  make  no  difference 
with  me. 

"They  dislike  her  because  she  is  too  faithful  to 
me  to  please  them.  Any  good  secretary  comes  in 
for  that  sort  of  thing.  Take  Loeb.  He  was  devoted 
to  me  and  never  considered  himself.  He  was  thor 
oughly  disliked  by  many  persons  just  because  he 


266  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

did  as  I  told  him.  He  made  good  as  secretary  just  as 
he  made  good  as  collector  [of  the  port  of  New  York] 
and  as  he  is  making  good  in  business. 

"Loeb  is  going  to  be  a  very  wealthy  man  some 
one  of  these  days,  and  he  deserves  to  be,  for  he  is 
honest  and  a  hard  worker. 

"You  do  not  know  Loeb  very  well?  I  want  you 
to  get  acquainted  with  him  —  you  '11  like  him,  and 
you'll  find  you  have  many  things  in  common.  He's 
a  capital  fellow." 


THE  NEW  YORK  FIGHT  OF  1918 

HAD  Colonel  Roosevelt  so  chosen,  he  would 
have  ended  his  days  in  the  Executive  Mansion 
in  Albany.  In  the  fall  of  1918  leaders  of  a  powerful 
faction  in  the  party  used  every  possible  argument 
and  influence  to  induce  him  to  stand  against  Charles 
S.  Whitman  for  the  Republican  nomination. 

They  believed,  and  privately  the  Whitman  leaders 
agreed  with  them,  that  they  could  stampede  the 
convention  for  "T.  R."  if  he  would  only  say  the 
word.  On  the  other  hand,  Whitman's  lieutenants 
used  every  bit  of  influence  they  could  command  to 
induce  him  to  declare  for  their  man.  They  were  as 
unsuccessful  as  the  anti-Whitmanites. 

"  I  shall  support  whoever  is  nominated, "  was  the 
best  either  side  could  get  from  him. 

"I  will  not,"  he  declared  to  me  as  to  others,  "be 
used  by  Whitman,  and  I  will  not  allow  Whitman's 
foes  to  use  me  as  a  club  on  him  or  to  drag  any  of  their 
chestnuts  out  of  the  fire.  I  shall  not  interfere  in  the 
New  York  fight  or  be  a  candidate  for  Governor. 

"  It  is  a  fight  within  the  party  for  the  members  of 
the  party  to  settle  between  themselves.  They  and 
the  party  will  be  the  better  off  for  settling  it.  I  do 
not  know  that  I  could  settle  it,  but  if  I  did,  it  would 


268  TALKS  WITH  T..R. 

leave  soreness  and  ill-feeling  and  put  me  in  a  posi 
tion  I  will  not  take  —  that  of  a  State  boss. 

"I  have  no  delusions  about  Whitman.  Neither 
have  I  any  delusions  as  to  Mr.  Barnes  and  some 
others  who  are  fighting  him.  There  is  no  call  for  me 
to  interfere,  and  I  shall  not  interfere. 

"  Believe  me,  I  realize  that  it  is  not  love  for 
Roosevelt  that  prompts  Whitman's  party  to  praise 
me.  I  am  too  old  a  bird  to  be  deceived  on  this  point. 
They  talk  of  me  for  Governor,  not  because  they 
want  me,  but  because  they  want  to  kill  off  Whitman. 

"They  won't  use  me  as  a  blackjack." 

The  effort  to  induce  Colonel  Roosevelt  to  run  for 
Governor  was  not  the  only  attempt  made  to  use  him 
in  New  York  politics  in  the  last  years  of  his  life.  An 
earlier  move  was  in  the  form  of  a  bill  making  him 
food  controller  of  the  State.  The  day  this  move  be 
came  public,  Colonel  Roosevelt  called  me  to  his 
office  to  say  he  would  not  for  a  moment  consider  it. 

"I  shall,"  said  he,  "have  something  to  say  later 
in  the  day.  Be  at  the  Union  League  at  five.  If  you 
wish,  bring  one  or  two  of  the  boys  along." 

The  late  N.  A.  Jennings  was  the  only  man  of  those 
close  to  the  Colonel  I  could  reach.  When  we  arrived 
he  had  a  statement  ready. 

"I  have,"  said  he,  "tried  to  be  fair  to  Whitman 
by  emphasizing  the  fact  that  the  Governor  should 


THE  NEW  YORK  FIGHT  OF  1918     269 

be  free  to  make  appointments.  I  have  been  Governor 
and  I  know  what  that  means. 

"Furthermore,  I  am  not  the  man  for  the  place. 
I  know  my  limitations.  And  if  I  were,  I  would  not 
allow  myself  to  be  switched  on  to  a  side  track  at  this 
time.  The  main  thing  is  to  get  troops  over,  to  speed 
up  the  work,  to  wake  up  the  country.  Food  is  im 
portant,  it  is  extremely  important,  but  there  are 
men  who  can  do  this  work  better  than  I  can  and  I 
am  going  to  let  some  one  of  them  do  it. 

"  I  am  very  much  out  of  patience  with  those  cheer 
ful  souls  who  keep  crying,  'Food  will  win  the  war.' 
The  war  will  be  won  by  the  men  with  guns  in  their 
hands. 

"I  have  said  all  this,  though  not  in  those  words, 
in  this  statement.  I  don't  believe  you  can  read  my 
writing,  so  I  '11  read  it  to  you. 

"  You  will  see,"  he  declared,  as  he  finished  reading, 
"that  the  real  value  of  this  move  is  that  it  gives  me 
the  opportunity  to  once  more  hammer  on  the  need 
of  full,  absolute,  and  complete  preparedness." 


HOME  FOLK 

THERE  are  many  things  in  Oyster  Bay  that  I 
would  like  to  see  changed,  but  I  cannot  well  do 
anything.  If  I  interfered,  many  would  not  like  it. 
You  see  there  are  some  persons  in  this  world  who 
resent  being  reformed,  even  by  an  ex-President  of 
the  United  States." 

Colonel  Roosevelt  was  talking  of  his  relations  with 
the  people  of  Oyster  Bay. 

These  relations  were  unique  and  not  readily  under 
stood  by  the  visitor,  who  often  was  surprised  to  hear 
a  resident  speak  unkindly  of  the  town's  leading  citi 
zen.  At  bottom  all  liked  the  Colonel  and  appreci 
ated  what  he  had  done  for  the  town;  though  many 
resented  the  thought  that  Oyster  Bay's  sole  reason 
for  existence  was  the  need  of  some  place  where  news 
despatches  having  to  do  with  Colonel  Roosevelt 
might  be  dated. 

The  entire  truth,  I  think,  is  that  Roosevelt  was 
not  really  understood  by  the  town  folks.  Some  re 
sented  the  fact  that  only  a  few  of  their  number  ever 
were  asked  to  Sagamore  Hill,  where  Roosevelt's  life, 
while  simple,  was  essentially  that  of  the  Lord  of  the 
Manor.  They  felt  that  it  was  in  many  ways  a  world 


HOME  FOLK  271 

apart,  and  that  the  great  and  important  who  visited 
Sagamore  Hill  were  not  their  kind. 

On  the  other  hand,  they  would  have  very  strongly 
resented  any  change.  Were  they  made  welcome  at 
any  and  all  times,  they  would  have  felt  that  "T.  R.," 
as  they  invariably  called  him,  would  be  patronizing 
them.  It  was  this  the  Colonel  had  in  mind  when  he 
said  he  was  careful  not  to  interfere  in  town  affairs. 

"One  trouble  here,"  he  said,  discussing  Oyster 
Bay  and  his  life  there,  "is  that  when  there  is  some 
thing  worth  while  here  you  do  not  report  it.  Your 
papers  would  not  print  it  if  you  did,  I  suppose.  It 
would  not  be  news. 

"Take  the  Christmas  exercises  at  the  Cove  School. 
For  over  thirty  years  I  have  been  the  Santa  Claus 
there.  It  began  when  —  no,  before  —  my  children 
started  to  school.  Mrs.  Roosevelt  for  years  bought 
the  presents  after  consultation  with  the  teachers, 
and  learning  just  what  each  child  wished  or  should 
have.  I  remember  she  always  used  to  buy  at  Bloom- 
ingdale's  because  she  could  get  the  best  value  for  the 
money.  Of  late  years  she  has  not  been  able  to  do  the 
shopping  and  the  teachers  have  done  that  work. 

"The  celebration  is  a  movable  feast,  usually  fixed 
after  considerable  discussion  with  the  teachers.  I 
have  been  there  whenever  I  could.  I  always  have 
tried  to  spend  Christmas  here  at  home.  Sometimes 


272  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

when  I  was  President  I  could  not  come,  but  I  was 
here  when  I  could.  It  is  the  usual  school  celebration 
—  carols,  'curfew  shall  not  ring  to-night,'  addresses 
by  myself  and  other  leading  citizens  —  you  know 
what  I  mean.  And  of  course  I  have  a  word  for  every 
body.  The  occasion  would  be  entirely  lost  if  the  little 
red  heads  of  one  family  were  not  appropriately 
recognized. 

"It's  a  good  school  and  democratic.  There  is  one 
negro  family  here  that  sends  its  children  there.  Ted 
at  one  time  shared  a  desk  with  one  of  them.  If  that 
were  only  known  in  the  South,  it  would  damn  me  for 
ever.  But  that  would  not  be  news,  that  celebration." 

The  one  person  in  Oyster  Bay  who,  above  all 
others,  voiced  his  disapproval  of  the  Colonel  was 
Disbrow,  the  local  editor.  His  was  a  Democratic 
sheet  (it  still  is,  I  believe),  and  Disbrow  seemed  to 
feel  it  incumbent  upon  him  to  speak  as  an  individual 
as  strongly  as  he  did  when  he  used  the  editorial 
"we."  He  particularly  resented  the  fact  that  prac 
tically  every  news  item  from  Oyster  Bay  in  the 
New  York  papers  referred  in  some  way  to  the 
Colonel  or  his  family  —  a  state  of  affairs  he  consid 
ered  most  unjust. 

How  to  change  things  he  and  others  who  felt  as 
he  did  did  not  know  until  after  Judge  Hughes  had 
been  favored  over  the  Colonel  by  the  Republican 


HOME  FOLK  273 

Convention.  Then  it  occurred  to  Disbrow  and  others 
that  a  big  Independence  Day  celebration,  with  a 
parade,  a  firemen's  muster,  and  other  trimmings, 
would  for  once,  at  least,  result  in  something  other 
than  Roosevelt  matter  being  printed  as  coming  from 
the  Bay. 

"This  man  up  on  the  hill  is  all  through,"  said  Dis 
brow.  "The  King  is  dead.  We'll  have  a  celebration 
that  will  show  folks  there's  something  to  Oyster 
Bay  but  Roosevelt." 

Frederic  R.  Coudert  was  selected  as  orator  of  the 
day,  and  everything  arranged,  even  to  having  the 
Colonel  sit  in  the  grandstand,  as  a  sort  of  Exhibit  A. 
The  Colonel,  who  had  an  inkling  of  the  motive  back 
of  the  celebration,  agreed  to  attend  on  the  distinct 
understanding  that  he  was  not  to  be  asked  to  speak 
by  the  committee  or  the  chairman. 

When  the  day  came  around,  a  really  creditable 
parade  was  held,  the  town  was  prettily  decorated, 
and  half  of  Long  Island  was  on  hand  when  Mr. 
Coudert  began  to  speak.  So  was  a  detail  of  blue 
jackets  from  a  warship,  stationed  in  the  Bay  for  the 
occasion,  a  battery  of  moving-picture  men,  and  the 
usual  group  of  New  York  reporters.  Mr.  Coudert, 
always  a  good  speaker,  was  at  his  best,  and  every 
thing  from  Disbrow's  standpoint  was  lovely  until 
he  was  about  to  conclude. 


274  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

" However, "  he  said,  "I  am  sure  you  have  heard 
enough  from  me.  There 's  another  here  you  'd  prefer 
to  hear  from,  and  as  I  'm  bound  by  no  gentleman's 
agreement,  I  present  to  you  your  fellow  townsman, 
Colonel  Roosevelt." 

Instantly,  the  picture  changed.  The  "corpus  de- 
lictu"  that  was  came  to  life  with  a  crashing,  patri 
otic  speech,  winding  up  by  inviting  the  bluejackets 
and  their  officers  to  partake  of  his  hospitality  at 
Sagamore  Hill,  and  departed.  Next  morning  Oyster 
Bay  was  on  the  front  pages  of  half  the  papers  of  the 
country,  with  Mr.  Hughes  receiving  scant  room  in 
side.  Mr.  Coudert  was  mentioned  as  having  "also 
spoke,"  and  the  parade  was  given  notice  in  passing. 

"Huh,"  said  Maury  Townsend,  last  of  the  oldest 
families,  next  day  when  asked  what  he  thought  of 
the  denouement.  "What  did  they  expect?  First 
thing  any  one  about  here  knows  some  people  we 
know  will  be  scheming  to  keep  squirrels  on  the 
ground." 


THE  VALUE  OF  MASONRY 

COLONEL  ROOSEVELT  was  a  Mason,  and  in 
a  quiet  way  an  enthusiastic  one.  He  was  a  fre 
quent  attendant  at  Matinecock  Lodge  in  Oyster 
Bay  in  which  he  was  raised,  and  when  in  foreign 
parts,  particularly  in  out-of-the-way  places,  made  it 
a  rule,  when  possible,  to  visit  the  local  lodges.  He 
was  as  thorough  in  his  Masonry  as  he  was  in  other 
things,  as  witness  Harry  Russell,  well  known  in  the 
craft,  who  assisted  in  his  initiation. 

"When,"  says  Russell,  "the  Colonel  came  up  for 
examination  he  was  letter  perfect  —  hanged  if  he 
did  not  have  the  work  better  than  his  conductor,  for 
he  corrected  him  in  an  error." 

Talking  of  Oyster  Bay  affairs  at  his  home  one 
afternoon  the  Colonel  touched  on  this  phase  of  his 
activities. 

"As  you  know,"  he  said,  turning  to  me,  "I  am  a 
member  of  the  local  lodge  of  Masons.  You  also  know, 
brother,  I  violate  no  secret  when  I  say  that  one  of 
the  greatest  values  in  Masonry  is  that  it  affords  an 
opportunity  for  men  in  all  walks  of  life  to  meet  on 
common  ground,  where  for  the  time  all  men  are 
equal  and  have  one  common  interest. 


276  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

"For  example,  when  I  was  President,  the  master 
was  Worshipful  Brother  Doughty,  gardener  on  the 
estate  of  one  of  my  neighbors,  and  a  most  excellent 
public-spirited  citizen,  with  whom  I  liked  to  main 
tain  contact.  Clearly  I  could  not  call  upon  him  when 
I  came  home.  It  would  have  embarrassed  him. 
Neither  could  he,  without  embarrassment,  call  on 
me.  In  the  lodge  it  was  different.  He  was  over  me, 
though  I  was  President,  and  it  was  good  for  him  and 
good  for  me. 

"  I  go  to  the  lodge,  and  even  the  folks  who  do  not 
belong  to  or  believe  in  the  order,  rather  like  it  that  I 
should  go.  They  seem  to  feel  it 's  part  of  the  eternal 
fitness  of  things.  Whenever  I  return  from  one  of  my 
journeys  I  always  go  there  to  tell  of  the  lodges  I 
have  visited,  in  Nairobi  in  Africa,  in  Trinidad,  or  the 
quaint  little  lodge  I  found  away  up  on  the  Ascunsion 
River.  They  sort  of  feel  I  am  their  representative  to 
these  lodges,  and  they  like  it.  There's  a  real  com 
munity  of  interest. 

"It's  the  same  way  with  Mrs.  Roosevelt.  She  is 
an  Episcopalian,  you  know,  and  belongs  to  a  guild 
named  after  a  saint  —  Saint  Hilda,  I  believe.  She 
frequently  has  the  members  here.  She  had  them  at 
the  White  House  on  several  occasions.  There's  no 
social  rank  in  the  guild,  no  distinction  —  the  brake- 
man's  wife  or  the  butcher's  wife,  the  equal  of  her 


THE  VALUE  OF  MASONRY  277 

neighbor,  and  all  are  comfortable.  You  see,  they 
have  a  common  interest. 

"That  is  the  way  to  make  people  work  together. 
Get  them  on  common  ground,  get  them  together 
through  some  interest  in  common.  There  social  lines 
fade  out  and  you  get  results." 


HITTING  THE  BACK  TRAIL 

I  HAVE  no  desire  to  return  to  the  scenes  of  my 
ranching  days.  It's  all  changed  —  and  I  don't 
want  to  see  it." 

I  had  asked  the  Colonel  if  he  ever  longed  to  retrace 
his  steps  through  the  ranch  country  he  had  known 
as  a  young  man. 

"It  is  a  mistake,  I  think,  for  one  to  hit  the  back 
trail  after  many  years  have  passed.  One  finds  things 
changed,  the  old  picture  is  destroyed,  the  romance 
gone.  I  was  back  in  the  old  country  once.  I  saw  only 
a  little  of  it,  but  that  was  enough.  Why  there  was  a 
store  down  where  we  had  the  clash  with  the  Indians! 

"The  place  is  all  settled  now.  The  folks  there  are 
largely  of  foreign  stock,  good  people  and  good  citi 
zens,  who  lead  most  matter-of-fact  lives.  It  is  best 
that  it  should  be  so,  but  I  don't  wish  to  see  the  place 
again.  I  'd  rather  try  and  remember  it  as  it  was. 

II  Change,  of  course,  is  the  rule  of  all  new  countries. 
I  imagine  that  thirty  or  forty  years  from  now  the 
jungle  I  hunted  over  in  Africa  may  be  quite  settled 
and  as  safe  as  Upper  Harlem.  This  will  not  be  true  of 
the  Amazon.  A  great  many  years  must  elapse  before 
that  country  is  little  more  than  a  poorly  charted 
wilderness.  It  is  not  attractive  to  the  white  man. 


HITTING  THE  BACK  TRAIL          279 

"Africa,  on  the  other  hand,  is.  For  that  reason,  it 
will  be  comparatively  developed  when  the  Amazon 
country  is  still  raw. 

"I  shall  revisit  neither  place.  I  have  done  my  bit. 
Those  who  come  after  me  must  do  theirs.  Anyway, 
I've  no  desire  to  hit  the  back  trail.  As  a  rule,  it's 
not  profitable." 


ON  HEREDITY 

ONCE,  when  Colonel  Roosevelt  declared  that 
Richard  Derby  (now  Colonel),  who  married 
his  youngest  daughter,  Ethel,  was  "a  fine  fellow"  of 
whom  he  was  "as  proud  as  I  am  of  my  blood  sons," 
I  remarked  that  Dr.  Derby  came  from  a  splendid 
family  —  the  Derbys  of  old  Salem,  in  Massachusetts. 

"Yes,  I  know/'  he  replied;  "it  is  as  you  say,  a 
splendid  family.  I  do  not  care  what  any  man  says, 
and  I'm  no  ancestor  worshipper  either,  blood  will 
tell  in  a  man,  a  horse,  or  a  dog.  In  either  case  you 
will  have  culls  at  times  and  throw-backs,  but  in  the 
long  run  and  on  the  average  you  will  find  the  blooded 
animal  wins. 

"Take  our  immigrant  stock.  You  will  find,  I  am 
sure,  if  you  could  go  back  into  the  history  of  the 
immigrant  that  rises  above  his  fellows,  that  back  of 
him  there  was  some  superior  stock;  that  a  father, 
grandfather,  or  some  remote  ancestor  was  eminent 
above  his  fellows  in  the  home  land,  wherever  that 
might  have  been. 

"  It  is  so  with  our  American  negroes.  Take  my  boy, 
Charlie  Lee,  for  example.  Charlie  came  to  me  from 
Captain  Fitzhugh  Lee,  whose  boy  he  had  been. 
Charlie  is  a  first-class  citizen,  careful,  industrious, 


ON  HEREDITY  281 

cleanly,  thrifty  —  a  better  man  than  the  average 
run  of  whites.  Charlie's  father  was  General  Robert 
E.  Lee's  body  servant;  Charlie  takes  his  name  from 
the  Lee  family.  The  father  was  a  superior  negro. 
Doubtless  if  we  could  go  back,  we'd  find  that  his 
father's  father,  and  beyond,  were  well  above  the 
average  of  slaves. 

"  Charlie  inherits  his  good  points  from  his  parents, 
from  those  people  I  've  been  talking  about.  He  is  as 
loyal  as  a  bulldog,  perfectly  attached  to  the  family 
and  devoted  to  the  children.  If  it  was  the  life  of  any 
one  of  them  or  Charlie's,  Charlie  would  not  hesitate 
one  second.  If  he  were  lucky  enough  to  escape  him 
self,  he  would  not  think  he  had  done  anything  out 
of  the  ordinary,  and  he  would  probably  resent  being 
told  that  he  had." 

Charlie  had  an  equally  high  opinion  of  his  adored 
Colonel. 

"Colonel  Roosevelt  has  been  splendid  to  me,"  he 
said  one  day.  "He's  more  like  a  father  to  us  all  than 
an  employer.  You  just  be  up  at  the  house  if  one  of 
those  Irish  girls  is  sick!  The  Colonel  and  Mrs.  Roose 
velt  are  just  as  worried  as  though  she  was  one  of  the 
children  and  she  would  n't  get  any  better  care  if  she 
was  one  of  the  children. 

"But,"  laughed  Charlie  at  the  conclusion  of  this 
—  for  him  —  very  long  speech,  "what's  the  use  of 


282  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

talking?  Quality  folks  are  quality  folks  wherever  you 
find  them." 

The  Colonel  grinned  when  I  one  day  repeated 
Charlie's  speech  to  him. 

"It's  about  what  you  should  expect  of  Charlie," 
said  he.  "  If  he  were  to  leave  me  for  any  reason,  you 
would  find  him  looking  about  for  some  family  he  felt 
he  could  with  honor  attach  himself  to  and  he  'd  serve 
it  as  loyally  and  as  proudly  as  he  now  serves  mine. 
Mere  money  would  not  get  him  if  what  he  terms 
'  quality '  were  not  there.  And  if  I  make  myself  clear, 
Charlie  would  honor  any  family  he  might  go  with. 
If  I  did  not  know  anything  else  about  it,  the  fact 
that  Charlie  had  put  his  O.K.  on  it  would  tell  me 
its  members  were  worth-while  people. 

"But  Charlie  won't  go.  He'll  stay  with  Mrs. 
Roosevelt  and  me  as  long  as  we  live,  and  then,  in  all 
probability,  go  with  one  of  the  children.  It  will  be 
one  of  those  things  everybody  will  take  for  granted 
—  Charlie's  going  with  Ted  or  Ethel  or  one  of  the 
others." 


ON  REMEMBERING  FRIEND  AND  FOE 

IT  was  no  part  of  Colonel  Roosevelt's  philosophy 
to  turn  the  other  cheek  to  the  smiter.  On  the 
contrary,  he  very  much  favored  payment  in  kind  — 
if  the  party  of  the  other  part  was  worthy  of  atten 
tion. 

In  a  word,  his  philosophy  forbade  him  to  forget 
friends  or  foes,  and  it  was  his  regret  that  he  had  not 
had  time  to  attend  to  all  of  the  latter. 

This  I  learned  one  day  when  meeting  him  at  the 
Grand  Central  Terminal  he  invited  me  to  ride  up 
town  with  him. 

"  I  have  something  to  tell  you,"  he  said.  "  I  wanted 
you  to  know  that  I  have  just  given  Julian  Street 
a  statement  for  use  in  Collier's  endorsing  Purroy 
Mitchel  for  reelection.  I  thought  you  would  be  glad 
to  know  it." 

"On  the  contrary,  I  am  sorry,"  I  replied. 

"Why?" 

"First,  because  you  are  binding  yourself  to  a  sure 
loser,  and  I  don't  like  to  see  you  with  a  loser.  Second, 
and  less  important,  I  cannot  be  with  you  on  this." 

"You  surprise  me,"  said  the  Colonel.  "Why  can't 
you  be  with  me?" 

"Colonel,"  I  replied,  "I  am  sorry.  If  this  were 


284  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

anything  to  you  personally,  I  'd  follow  you  anywhere, 
but  it  is  n't.  On  the  other  hand,  this  man  and  I  are 
not  friends,  for  he  went  out  of  his  way  to  try  and  do 
me  an  injury.  No  man  of  his  position  can  do  that  to 
me.  A  little  fellow  I  'd  ignore,  but  a  man  in  his  high 
position  I  won't." 

"What  did  he  do?"  asked  the  Colonel. 

I  explained  at  some  length,  concluding  by  saying 
that  I  would  not  have  cared  much  had  the  man  not 
rewarded  my  taking  much  trouble  to  play  square 
with  him  by  misrepresenting  my  position. 

"I  can't  forget  that  sort  of  thing,"  I  said,  just 
a  wee  bit  fearful  that  my  defection  might  offend 
him. 

"Jack,"  he  said,  hitting  his  right  fist  in  his  left 
palm,  "you  are  absolutely  right,  absolutely  right. 
A  man  has  no  more  right  to  forget  an  enemy  than 
he  has  to  forget  a  friend. 

"God  knows,"  he  went  on  after  a  pause,  "I  have 
always  tried  to  do  something  for  everybody  who 
ever  did  anything  for  me,  and  I  have  been  fortunate 
in  that  I  have  usually  been  successful  in  this  re 
spect,  but  the  regret  of  my  life  is  that  I  have  been 
unable  to  take  proper  care  of  all  my  enemies  —  I 
have  had  a  million  of  them,  too  many  of  them  for 
any  man,  however  lucky,  to  attend  to  in  an  ordinary 
lifetime." 


ON  REMEMBERING  FRIEND  AND  FOE    285 

Every  word  the  Colonel  bit  off  short  in  the  way 
peculiar  to  him. 

"  I  take  an  effort  to  do  me  a  kindness  as  an  obliga 
tion,  and  an  injury  or  a  thing  that  might  naturally 
be  expected  to  injure  as  an  obligation.  No  man  can 
in  justice  to  himself  forget  friend  or  foe.  In  a  public 
exigency  one  should  for  the  moment  forget  a  personal 
injury  if  so  doing  would  let  him  work  with  the  other 
person  in  the  public  interest,  that  as  a  matter  of 
public  duty,  but  only  as  a  public  duty. 

"By  this  I  do  not  mean  that  one  should  sit  and 
nurse  his  wounds  all  the  time.  Not  at  all.  But  I'll 
pardon  him  if  he  remembers  his  scars  when  oppor 
tunity  offers." 

Colonel  Roosevelt  was  himself  the  most  punctili 
ous  of  men  in  recognizing  the  claims  of  others  upon 
him.  For  this  reason,  if  no  other,  not  every  one  could 
do  him  a  favor. 

"  I  am,"  he  remarked  whimsically  one  day,  "a  bit 
particular  in  the  matter  of  receiving  favors.  If  a  man 
does  anything  for  you,  you  are  bound,  if  you  can,  to 
do  something  for  him  when  occasion  offers.  If  it  hap 
pens  to  be  the  right  sort  of  a  man,  it  won't  matter 
much,  but  with  the  other  kind  it  can  be  very,  very 
embarrassing.  It's  not  everybody  I  care  to  be  under 
obligation  to." 

The  Colonel  not  long  after  this  practised  what  he 


286  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

preached.  In  a  matter  that  was  of  grave  importance 
to  him,  a  politician  whose  standards  were  not  of  the 
highest,  but  who  was  in  a  position  to  assist,  offered 
his  aid. 

"  I  shall  have  to  decline  with  thanks,"  said  he.  "  If 
I  allow  him  to  do  anything  for  me,  I  shall  have  to  do 
something  for  him  later  on.  He  knows  that  as  well 
as  I  do,  and  I  am  simply  not  going  to  be  under  any 
obligation  to  him.  He's  not  the  kind  I  want  to  be 
beholden  to. 

"A  man  should  be  as  careful  in  accepting  favors 
as  he  should  be  in  making  promises.  If  he's  careless 
in  either,  he  soon  finds  he  rs  in  trouble  of  one  sort  or 
another.  There's  where  many  a  man  in  politics  has 
wrecked  himself,  exactly  as  men  in  business  have 
gone  bankrupt  endorsing  notes  for  friends." 


''WELL-MEANING  FOOLS" 

IF  they  ever  get  Mr.  Wilson  out  here,  I  hope 
they'll  bar  that  trick.  It's  pretty,  but  it  affords 
the  best  cover  for  evil-minded  persons  I  have  ever 
seen.  A  man  with  a  bomb  could  not  ask  a  better 
opportunity." 

Colonel  Roosevelt  was  referring  to  a  feature  of 
his  reception  in  Springfield,  Ohio,  that,  pretty  as 
any  picture,  he  did  not  exactly  like.  It  was  a  shower 
of  peonies  aimed  at  the  stage  as  he  made  his  appear 
ance. 

Near  Springfield  is  a  famous  peony  nursery. 
From  it  bulbs  are  shipped  all  over  the  world.  For 
the  blooms  of  its  forty  thousand  plants  there  is  a 
rather  limited  market,  so  once  a  year  there  is 
"peony  day"  when  the  flowers  are  sold  about  the 
streets  for  the  benefit  of  the  Red  Cross  or  some 
other  charity.  On  the  occasion  of  the  Colonel's  visit 
there  was  a  " war-chest"  drive  on,  so  the  blooms 
were  given  away,  and  some  one  conceived  the  idea 
of  giving  him  "a  shower"  when  he  reached  the 
auditorium. 

This  building  was  filled  to  capacity  when  he  ar 
rived.  Each  of  the  three  thousand  or  more  who  had 
jammed  their  way  in  had  at  least  one  peony  blossom; 


288  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

most  of  them  had  several.  As  he  appeared  emerging 
from  the  wings,  the  audience  arose  and  began  hurl 
ing  the  great,  luscious  blooms  at  the  stage.  For  a  few 
minutes  the  air  was  full  of  them,  the  hall  looking  for 
all  the  world  as  though  an  army  had  taken  to  hurl 
ing  snowballs.  While  it  lasted,  Colonel  Roosevelt 
held  his  place  in  the  entrance.  From  my  seat  I  could 
see  his  jaw  set,  and  his  head  half  shake.  It  was  clear 
he  did  not  exactly  approve  of  the  demonstration. 

"Was  n't  that  flower  thing  in  the  hall  a  fool  af 
fair?"  he  asked  that  evening. 

I  agreed  that  it  was,  adding  that  it  was  very  pretty 
and  that  those  responsible  meant  well. 

" Exactly,"  said  he.  "They  meant  well.  But  I 
have  found  that  one  of  the  real  dangers  of  life  are 
people  who  mean  well.  You  never  can  tell  what  they 
will  do.  You  can  tell,  or  at  least  be  on  guard  against 
those  who  do  not  mean  well.  Some  of  the  greatest 
embarrassments  of  my  life  have  been  caused  by 
people  with  the  best  of  intentions  that  'did  not 
know  it  was  loaded.' 

"  I  am  not  afraid  of  the  crook  who  means  evil.  I 
can  usually  take  care  of  him  or  guard  against  him. 
But  the  well-meaning  fool  —  no  man  can  guard 
against  him  or  his  embarrassments." 


ON  COLLEGE  LIFE 

THE  two  classes  of  college  boys  who  get  the 
least  out  of  college  life  are  those  who  have  no 
money  and  those  who  have  too  much.  Neither  pov 
erty  nor  great  riches  are  desirable  for  the  boy  in 
college." 

Colonel  Roosevelt  had  asked  my  plans  for  my  boy, 
and  I  had  told  him  I  meant  to  send  him  to  Harvard 
"if  I  had  the  necessary  funds." 

"  It  does  not,"  said  he,  "require  very  much  money 
to  send  a  boy  through  Harvard  or  for  that  matter 
Yale  or  any  of  the  big  schools.  The  fact  is  that  the 
boy  who  has  too  much  money  in  college  is  just  as 
badly  off  as  the  poor  fellow  who  has  none.  I  have 
every  sympathy  with  the  boy  who  works  his  way 
through  college,  but  I  realize  that  the  poor  fellow 
who  has  to  divide  his  time  between  work,  classroom, 
and  study  does  not  begin  to  get  all  a  man  should  get 
out  of  college.  He  does  not  get  the  real  spirit  of  the 
university,  and  he  may  come  out  with  a  mass  of  un 
digested  knowledge,  worn  physically  and  mentally 
and  a  narrow  man.  He'd  have  done  as  well  in  many 
cases  working  at  some  trade  and  devoting  his  spare 
time  to  a  public  library. 

"On  the  other  hand,  the  boy  who  has  unlimited 


290  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

money  has  unlimited  opportunities  to  spend  it,  to 
get  into  trouble  and  acquire  habits  that  will  be  a 
handicap  in  later  life.  With  the  aid  of  tutors  he  gets 
his  degree,  and  leaves  college  just  as  the  extremely 
poor  boy  without  having  gotten  the  real  benefit  of 
the  college.  Both  have  been  in  but  not  of  the  college. 

"  Unlike  either  of  these,  the  boy  of  moderate 
means,  enough  to  permit  him  to  take  a  real  part  in 
all  college  activities,  but  not  enough  to  permit  or 
induce  extravagance,  gets  about  everything  there  is 
to  be  had.  They  are  the  men  who  really  benefit  by 
college. 

"It  does  not  hurt  a  boy  to  have  to  do  some  work 
—  some  of  the  best  men  I  have  known  have  had  to 
do  some  work  while  in  college  —  but  the  fellow  who 
has  all  work  and  no  time  for  the  lighter  activities  is 
unfortunate.  He  would  do  better  to  delay  his  en 
trance  until  he  could  accumulate  enough  funds  to 
make  his  stay  in  the  school  less  of  a  constant  drill. 

"That,  I  know,  is  not  quite  so  romantic,  but  it  is 
eminently  more  practical. 

"  However,  one  can  never  tell  how  a  university 
man  will  turn  out  or  what  a  university  will  turn  out. 
Just  now  the  two  most  eminent  of  the  alumni  of  my 
college  are  Boies  Penrose  and  Bill  Barnes.'* 


ON  PROHIBITION 

COLONEL  ROOSEVELT  was  not  of  those  who 
favored  the  Eighteenth  Amendment  to  the 
Constitution  prohibiting  the  manufacture,  importa 
tion,  or  sale  of  intoxicating  liquors.  To  his  mind 
prohibition  was  certain  to  cause  unrest  and  dissatis 
faction;  he  doubted  the  fairness  of  removing  the 
saloon  without  providing  something  to  take  its  place 
in  the  life  of  the  tenement-dwellers;  and  he  was  in 
clined  to  think  the  liquor  question  was  settling  itself. 

"You  and  I  can  readily  recall  the  time/'  he  said 
to  me  one  day,  "when  it  was  not  bad  form  for  sub 
stantial  men  of  affairs,  for  lawyers,  doctors  —  pro 
fessional  men  generally  —  to  drink  in  the  middle  of 
the  day.  It  is  good  form  no  longer,  and  it's  not  now 
done.  It  is  not  so  long  ago  that  practically  every  man 
in  politics  drank  more  or  less,  when  hard  drinking, 
if  not  the  rule,  was  not  the  exception.  Now  the  hard 
drinker,  if  he  exists  at  all  among  the  higher  grade,  is 
a  survival  of  what  you  might  call  another  day. 

"Take  Tammany.  No  one  holds  that  up  as  an 
organization  of  model  men,  yet  I  am  sure  that  were 
you  to  make  a  canvass  of  its  district  leaders,  you 
would  find  pretty  close  to  a  majority  if  not  an  actual 
majority  are  teetotallers.  Tammany  no  longer  sends 


292  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

men  with  ability,  and  a  weakness  for  liquor,  to 
Albany.  It  may  and  it  probably  will  send  another  of 
Tom  Grady's  ability,  but  it  will  not  send  one  who 
drinks  as  hard. 

"This,  you  may  rest  assured,  is  not  a  matter  of 
morals.  It  is,  however,  a  matter  of  efficiency.  Tam 
many  wants  results  and  it  is  sufficiently  abreast  of 
the  times  to  know  that  drink  and  efficiency  do  not 
go  hand  in  hand  in  these  days  of  card  indexes  and 
adding  machines. 

"It  is  the  same  in  your  profession.  Not  long  ago 
most  of  the  boys  were  fairly  competent  drinking  men ; 
some  I  knew  were  rated  as  extra  competent  by  ad 
miring,  perhaps  envious,  colleagues.  Now  the  drink 
ing  man,  at  least  the  man  who  drinks  enough  to  show 
the  effects,  is  rare.  The  reason:  your  editors  won't 
stand  for  it.  As  Jack  Slaght  put  it  the  other  day  —  I 
think  it  was  Jack  —  a  reporter  in  the  old  days  was 
expected  to  have  'a  birthday*  about  so  often  and 
nothing  was  thought  of  it.  Now,  as  Slaght  puts  it, 
he  is  allowed  but  two.  The  first  time,  still  quoting 
your  friend  Slaght,  who  at  times  is  inclined  to  use 
plain  language,  he  gets  hell;  the  next  time  he  gets 
fired.  That  is  so,  is  it  not?" 

I  assured  him  that  Slaght  was  substantially  cor 
rect. 

"  It's  not  a  matter  of  morals  there,  though"  (with. 


ON  PROHIBITION  293 

a  laugh).  "  I  will  admit  you  boys  do  not  lack  morals. 
As  with  Tammany,  it  is  a  question  of  getting  results, 
exactly  as  it  is  with  the  doctor,  the  lawyer,  and  the 
judge. 

"  Drinking  declined  once  it  became  an  economic 
question,  or  at  least  as  soon  as  it  was  recognized  as 
an  economic  factor.  It  then  began  to  be  unfashion 
able  —  at  least  to  over-drink  —  and  the  man  who 
never  drank  at  all  ceased  to  be  unusual  in  any  trade 
or  calling. 

"  I  am,  however,  sorry  that  they  are  pressing  pro 
hibition  so  hard  at  this  time.  It  is,  I  think,  all  right, 
desirable,  in  fact,  to  limit  or  perhaps  prohibit  the 
so-called  hard  liquors,  but  it  is  a  mistake,  I  think, 
to  stop  or  try  to  stop  the  use  of  beers  and  the  lighter 
wines. 

"If  this  thing  goes  through,  where  does  the  social 
side  of  life  come  in?  We  both  know  that  a  'dry*  din 
ner  is  apt  to  be  a  sad  sort  of  affair.  It  will  make 
dining  a  lost  art. 

"  Likewise,  I  do  not  know  how  the  working-classes 
will  take  to  the  change.  You  and  I  have  no  need  of 
the  saloon.  We  have  other  places  to  go.  But  you  and 
I  know  that  the  saloon  fits  into  a  very  definite  place 
in  the  life  of  the  tenement-dweller.  I  do  not  know 
what  he  will  do  without  it;  what  substitutes  the  re 
formers  think  they  can  give  him  for  it.  I  do  not  be- 


294  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

lieve  they  have  thought  of  that,  or  that  they  care 
much. 

"Frankly,  I  do  not  know  what  will  be  the  outcome. 
Prohibition,  if  it  comes,  will  cause  ill-feeling  and  un 
rest  —  it  will  be  a  disturbing  factor  —  but  I  do  not 
look  for  anything  really  serious,  for  after  all  is  said 
and  done,  the  fact  remains  that  the  American  work 
man  is  a  law-abiding  individual. 

"When  it  comes,  prohibition  may  or  may  not  be 
permanent.  You  may,  however,  be  sure  of  one  thing 
—  it  will  be  extremely  difficult  to  repeal,  once  it 
becomes  part  of  the  Constitution." 

Responsibility  for  prohibition  Colonel  Roosevelt 
placed  squarely  upon  the  shoulders  of  the  liquor 
dealers  good  and  bad. 

"Some  liquor  dealers  I  have  known,"  said  he, 
"were  good,  well-meaning  citizens,  who  kept  decent 
places.  Take  the  Oakeses,  father  and  son,  who  own 
the  Oyster  Bay  Inn.  I  should  be  very  sorry  to  see 
them  lose  their  license.  Theirs  is  a  clean,  respectable 
place.  Again,  there  is  John  Brosnan's  place  in  New 
York.  No  one  ever  heard  a  complaint  against  John. 
His  place  has  been  no  more  offensive  than  if  he  sold 
dry  goods. 

"But  the  John  Brosnans  are  responsible  for  the 
plight  they  now  find  themselves  in,  because  they 
have  stood  neutral  when  they  did  not  fight  to  save 


ON  PROHIBITION  295 

men  who  ran  dives.  Had  the  Brosnans  and  Oakeses 
and  men  of  their  stamp  lined  up  with  decent  citizens 
in  closing  up  dives,  they  would  have  served  the  com 
munity  and  themselves.  However,  they  did  not,  and 
the  situation  is  as  it  is. 

"  I  shall  take  no  part  in  the  contest  one  way  or  the 
other.  It  must  be  settled  without  me.  I  shall  not 
allow  it  or  anything  else  to  swerve  me  from  the  work 
we're  now  in." 

The  "work  we're  now  in"  was  the  effort  to  speed 
up  the  war  by  arousing  the  American  people  to  the 
necessity  of  winning  a  "peace  with  victory." 


PERSHING  AND  WOOD 

ONE  thing  which  annoyed  Colonel  Roosevelt 
was  the  public's  persistence  in  believing  that 
it  was  to  him  that  General  Leonard  Wood  owed  his 
big  jump  in  the  army;  in  a  word,  to  its  confounding 
the  case  of  Wood  with  that  of  Pershing. 

"The  man  they  are  thinking  of,"  he  used  to  say, 
"is  Pershing.  It  was  he  I  jumped  over  the  heads  of 
several  hundred  other  army  officers.  I  'd  do  it  again, 
by  thunder,  if  the  same  occasion  arose !  Wood  got  his 
big  jump  from  McKinley,  and  all  I  ever  gave  him 
were  the  promotions  due  him  in  the  usual  course  of 
seniority.  I've  tried  a  hundred  times  to  straighten 
this  out  in  the  public  mind,  but  I  don't  suppose  I  '11 
ever  succeed.  The  public  seems  to  wish  to  believe 
this  myth. 

"President  McKinley  gave  Wood  his  big  jump  in 
the  regular  establishment,  after  he  took  him  out  of 
the  Rough  Riders.  I  gave  Pershing  his  big  jump  long 
after  I  had  succeeded  Mr.  McKinley  in  the  White 
House. 

"It  came  about  in  this  way:  Pershing  was  doing 
brilliant  work  in  the  Philippines.  All  the  official  re 
ports  showed  him  a  man  of  energy  and  initiative, 
who  could  be  depended  upon  to  do  what  he  was  sent 


PERSHING  AND  WOOD  297 

to  do,  and  about  whom  you  did  not  have  to  worry. 
The  unofficial  reports  that  came  back  squared  with 
all  this.  Both  left  no  room  for  doubt  as  to  the  calibre 
and  quality  of  the  man. 

"Now  about  this  time  the  line  of  promotion  in 
the  army  became  clogged.  It  needed  new  colonels 
and  lieutenant-colonels,  but  the  law  would  not  per 
mit  the  appointment  of  men  immediately  below  these 
ranks  that  were  of  the  quality  needed.  Congress 
would  not  change  the  law. 

"I  had,  however,  the  right  to  appoint  brigadier- 
generals.  I  made  Pershing  one.  Therefore,  you  might 
say  that  Congress,  by  refusing  me  the  right  to  make 
him  a  colonel  or  lieutenant-colonel,  forced  me  to 
elevate  him  even  higher. 

"Pershing  at  this  time  had  one  handicap.  It  was 
in  the  person  of  his  esteemed  father-in-law,  Senator 
Warren  of  Wyoming,  Chairman  of  the  Committee 
on  Military  Affairs.  To  advance  Pershing  above  his 
elders  meant  an  invitation  to  charges  of  favoritism, 
or,  as  the  army  and  navy  sometimes  put  it, '  the  three 
p's  —  politics,  petticoats,  and  a  pull/  Not  to  ad 
vance  him  for  this  reason  would  have  been  cowardly 
and  unfair.  There  was  nothing  for  me  to  do  but 
name  him  and  let  the  heathen  rage. 

"After  I  had  done  so,  Warren  came  to  me  and 
thanked  me. 


298  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

"I  said  to  him:  'Senator,  I  am  very  fond  of  you, 
but  this  appointment  has  not  been  made  on  your 
account.  You  owe  me  no  thanks  for  it.  I  am  pro 
moting  Captain  Pershing,  not  because  he  is  your 
son-in-law,  but  in  spite  of  the  row  that  relationship 
will  stir  up.  You  don't  owe  me  a  thing  on  account 
of  it.' 

"Warren  did  not  seem  to  like  this,  but  it  was  the 
truth  and  there  was  no  reason  why  it  should  be  sugar- 
coated  for  him.  However"  (this  with  a  laugh),  "he 
did  not  oppose  the  appointment. 

"Time  has  proven  that  I  was  right.  Mr.  Wilson 
has  proved  it  by  his  selection  of  Pershing,  first  for 
Mexico,  and  now  to  command  the  armies  in  France. 
Sims,  of  the  navy,  another  man  I  was  accused  of 
favoring,  Mr.  Wilson  has  also  chosen  for  important 
work,  fairly  good  proof  that  my  judgment  of  these 
men  when  they  were  juniors  was  sound." 

"But  he  has  not  approved  of  Wood,"  I  suggested. 

"No,  he  has  not.  He  has  used  Wood  very  badly 
and  very  unfairly.  I  might  say  he  has  also  been  very 
foolish  in  the  way  he  has  handled  Wood.  If  he 
wanted  to  side-track  him,  he  could  have  done  it  by 
sending  him  to  Hawaii  or  the  Philippines  and  leaving 
him  there.  But  he  did  not  have  the  courage  to  do 
this;  he  adopted  halfway  measures,  and  as  a  result, 
Wood  has  been  like  a  sore  thumb  to  him  —  always 


PERSHING  AND  WOOD  299 

in  the  way,  and  doing  things  so  well  that  the  public 
won't  allow  Mr.  Wilson  to  forget  him. 

"Wood  is  a  good  soldier,  and  a  splendid  organizer. 
So  is  Pershing.  Pershing,  in  addition,  is  something 
of  a  courtier.  Wood  is  not.  Wood  has  been  plain  and 
outspoken  and  he's  suffered  for  it. 

"Wood  is  a  big  man  who  can  look  on  a  problem 
from  every  angle.  He  makes  few  mistakes,  but  he's 
big  enough,  when  he  makes  one,  to  admit  the  error, 
and  he  always  has  patience  with  the  other  fellow's 
opinion. 

"  I  am  very  fond  of  Wood,  and  I  know  he  is  of  me, 
but  in  my  years  in  the  Presidency,  Wood  never  took 
any  advantage  of  our  intimacy  or  in  the  slightest 
degree  presumed  on  our  friendship.  If  anything,  he 
leaned  backward  in  this  respect." 


FONDNESS  FOR  THE  KHAKI  LAD 

JACK,  I  understand  some  of  Pershing's  wounded 
are  here.  I  must  see  them." 

Wherever  there  were  men  from  overseas  —  and 
in  the  early  days  of  the  war  these  were  almost  in 
variably  wounded  or  gassed  —  Colonel  Roosevelt 
wanted  to  meet  them.  If  they  were  on  hand  when  he 
arrived,  so  much  the  better.  If  they  were  not,  he 
would  ask  the  local  committee  where  they  were  to 
be  seen. 

On  trains  and  in  other  public  places  he  would  al 
ways  stop  to  greet  them,  and  ask  of  their  experiences, 
their  commands,  and  how  they  were  getting  along. 
They  were  welcome,  too,  at  Sagamore  Hill.  After 
the  establishment  of  the  great  camps  on  Long  Island 
he  was  at  home  to  the  "  rookies "  on  Saturdays,  and 
after  a  while  a  reception  for  them  was  a  fixed  feast 
each  week.  For  them  there  would  be  refreshments, 
he  had  something  to  say  to  each  of  them,  and  glad 
to  show  all  the  famous  "trophy  room." 

Bluejackets,  too,  were  as  welcome  as  the  men  of 
the  other  arm  of  the  service.  The  marvel  of  those 
meetings  was  the  number  of  mutual  acquaintances 
the  Colonel  and  soldiers  and  sailors  would  discover. 


FONDNESS  FOR  THE  KHAKI  LAD    301 

"Colonel/1  a  lad  would  say,  "I  am  from  Blank. 
John  Smith  there  says  to  remember  him  to  you." 

"That's  splendid!  Tell  him  I  am  very  glad  to  hear 
from  him.  How  did  he  ever  come  out  with  that  mine 
of  his?" 

Or  it  might  be  a  request  to  be  remembered  to  the 
village  doctor  or  judge.  He  knew  somebody  in  nearly 
every  place  they  would  mention. 

In  Detroit  a  veteran  boatswain,  recalled  from 
retirement  to  assist  in  recruiting,  hailed  the  Colonel. 

"I'm  mighty  glad  to  see  you  again,"  exclaimed 
T.  R.  "  Let  me  see,  the  last  time  I  saw  you,  you  were 
on  top  of  a  turret  on  a  ship  in  Italian  waters  —  you 
and  two  others.  I  '11  have  your  name  in  a  moment  — 
is  n't  it  Johnson?" 

"Yes,  sir,"  said  the  proud  sailor,  swelling  his  chest 
a  bit,  "I  was  a  bosun  then." 

Johnson,  by  the  way,  was  a  navy  character, 
known  in  the  seven  seas  as  "Steamboat"  Johnson. 

"Steamboat  Johnson  —  that  bosun  —  is  tickled 
to  death  at  your  remembering  him,"  I  said  to  the 
Colonel  afterward. 

"That's  it,  'Steamboat,'  I  knew  he  had  some  such 
outlandish  moniker,  as  they  might  say  in  our  be 
loved  New  York.  That  helped  me  recall  him.  I  re 
member  an  officer  explaining  that  he  had  amazing 
skill  in  handling  steam  launches;  could  do  as  much 


302  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

with  one  as  most  good  seamen  could  with  a  fair- 
sized  tug.  He's  a  good  sample  of  the  old-time  navy 
man.  I  believe  he 's  more  than  half  glad  of  this  war 

—  it  keeps  him  in  the  service." 

Once  I  spoke  of  the  Saturday  receptions  at  Saga 
more  Hill  as  a  nice  thing. 

"I'm  glad  to  hear  you  say  that/'  he  answered. 
"  I  rather  believe  the  boys  enjoy  it.  I  know  I  do.  I  'm 
glad  to  have  them  come,  and  the  obligation  is  all 
mine.  If  I  can  extend  them  any  little  courtesy  I  am 
glad  to  do  it.  It  is  no  more  than  I  would  thank  an 
other  man  for  doing  for  my  boys.  Mrs.  Roosevelt 
feels  about  it  just  as  I  do  —  she's  glad  to  have  them 
come. 

uThey  won't  let  me  go  to  war,  but  they  cannot 
prevent  my  admiring  those  who  are  privileged  to  go 

—  that,  and  minding  the  grandchildren." 

The  grandchildren  frequently  took  part  in  these 
festivities.  Once  little  "Dick"  Derby,  baby  son  of 
the  Colonel's  younger  daughter,  Ethel,  came  out, 
and  espying  a  flag  proceeded  to  salute  the  colors  in 
true  man-of-warsman  style.  A  group  of  bluejackets 
present  applauded. 

"We  start  them  young  out  here,"  said  the  de 
lighted  Colonel. 

It  was  on  this  occasion  that  the  Colonel,  showing 
his  visitors  through  the  "trophy  room,"  called  atten- 


FONDNESS  FOR  THE  KHAKI  LAD    303 

tion  to  an  enormous  pair  of  elephant  tusks,  said  to 
be  the  largest  in  the  world. 

" Those/'  said  he,  "were  presented  to  me  by  the 
one  man  in  the  world  fully  satisfied  with  his  ances- 
try." 

" Might  I  ask,  sir,"  said  a  bluejacket,  "who  he 
might  be?'1 

"King  Menelek  of  Abyssinia.  You  know  he  is 
said  to  have  descended  from  King  Solomon  and  the 
Queen  of  Sheba." 

The  Colonel  was  in  an  especially  jovial  mood  this 
particular  afternoon,  venturing  to  make  what  he 
seldom  did  —  a  pun  —  in  showing  a  book  Kaiser 
Wilhelm,  in  happier  days,  had  sent  him. 

"You  see,  gentlemen,"  said  the  Colonel,  pointing 
to  a  grammatical  error  in  the  inscription,  "  the  Kaiser 
did  not  know  his  English  very  well  even  then." 

Wilhelm  had  used  "to"  where  he  should  have 
spelled  it  "too." 


ON  BEING  SIXTY 

COLONEL/'  I  asked  on  the  eve  of  his  last  birth 
day,  "how  does  it  seem  to  be  sixty — -you  know 
you  will  be  sixty  on  Sunday?" 

"  I  do  not  know  that  it  makes  a  bit  of  difference," 
he  replied.  "At  any  rate,  I  had  not  noticed  any,  or 
that  I  feel  any  different  than  when  I  was  fifty-nine 
or  fifty-seven." 

"You  are  looking  well,"  I  said.  "I  think  I  will 
emphasize  that  in  my  story  of  Sunday  as  sort  of  an 
answer  to  those  who  are  spreading  the  report  that 
you  are  a  decrepit  old  man." 

"Do  so,  by  all  means,"  he  said.  "It  might  be  of 
interest  to  say  that  this  week  I  have  been  pulling  a 
boat  —  Mrs.  Roosevelt  and  I  had  a  little  picnic 
down  at  Lloyd's  Neck  one  day  this  week.  My  boat 
is  rather  heavy  and  it  is  a  good  pull,  but  I  did  not 
notice  that  it  affected  me  any. 

"A  man  should  not  be  old  at  sixty  if  he  takes 
reasonable  care  of  himself.  I  would  be  all  right  if  it 
were  not  that  I  have  some  reminders  yet  of  that  old 
Brazilian  fever.  It  has  come  back  at  times  in  a  very 
disagreeable  sort  of  way.  Aside  from  that  I  am  all 
right.  A  man  of  sixty,  though,  should  be  in  a  position 


ON  BEING  SIXTY  305 

where  he  can  take  things  easy  —  be  in  a  position 
where  he  can  do  those  things  he  may  like  to  do  and 
not  be  compelled  to  do  a  lot  of  other  things  that 
younger  men  can  do  as  well. 

"If  a  man  has  done  his  duty,  he  will  have  his 
share  of  work  done  at  that  age,  and  ordinarily  be  in 
a  position  to  retire.  If  he  has  not  done  his  duty  he 
may  not  be  called  upon  to  decide  the  question,  for 
my  experience  has  been  that  the  man  who  does  not 
do  his  work  is  the  kind  who  abuses  his  health,  and 
if  alive,  is  not  much  good  at  sixty,  or,  for  that  matter, 
years  before. 

"One  cannot,  however,  lay  down  any  general  rule 
on  that  sort  of  thing.  Some  men  do  their  best  work 
at  sixty  or  even  later.  It  depends  on  the  man  and  on 
circumstances  that  surround  him  or  that  may  arise 
after  he  has  thought  his  best  work  was  behind 
him. 

"How  old  are  you?"  he  suddenly  asked. 

I  told  him. 

"You've  got  a  long  way  ahead  of  you  yet.  You'll 
be  in  harness  many  years  yet  and  won't  want  to 
think  of  retiring  before  you  are  sixty.  Then  you  will 
probably  insist  on  doing  some  work.  You  won't  be  so 
foolish  as  to  wish  to  quit  altogether  even  at  what 
now  seems  to  you  to  be  a  pretty  good  age  for  a  news 
paper  man.  The  man  who  has  been  active  all  of  his 


306  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

life  who,  on  a  given  date,  arbitrarily  shuts  down, 
is  inviting  trouble  for  himself.  By  shutting  down,  he 
invites  a  breakdown. 

"Therefore  the  wise  retains  an  interest  in  some 
worth-while  things  as  long  as  he  is  able  to." 


THE  COLONEL  AND  THE  TREATY 

THIS  country  must  keep  its  absolute  economic 
independence  and  raise  or  lower  economic 
barriers  as  its  interests  demand,  for  we  have  to  look 
out  for  the  interests  of  our  own  workingman. 

"We  must  insist  on  the  preservation  of  the  Mon 
roe  Doctrine;  we  must  keep  the  right  to  close  the 
Panama  Canal  to  our  enemies  in  war-time;  and  we 
must  not  undertake  to  interfere  in  European,  Asi 
atic,  or  African  matters  with  which  we  ought  to  have 
properly  no  concern." 

That  was  Colonel  Roosevelt's  position  as  to  what 
the  peace  treaty  should  in  part  contain  as  expressed 
by  him  after  Mr.  Wilson  had  announced  his  inten 
tion  of  going  to  Paris,  but  before  he  sailed.  In  this 
talk  he  covered  the  then  nebulous  field  of  treaty- 
making,  and,  as  my  notes  show,  strongly  indicated 
that  he  foresaw  the  complications  that  arose  in  the 
Senate  when  the  finished  document  was  presented 
to  that  body  for  action.  It  was  clear  that  he  was  not 
of  those  who  approved  of  Mr.  Wilson's  plan  to  take 
part  in  the  Peace  Conference  and  he  was  very  much 
of  the  opinion  that  a  definite  statement  of  his  posi 
tion  was  due  the  American  people  from  Mr.  Wilson. 

He  also  made  it  clear  that  he  was  fearful  the  now 


3o8  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

almost  forgotten  "14  points "  would  be  pressed  to 
the  disadvantage  of  our  Allies. 

"President  Wilson, "  he  said,  "has  not  given  the 
slightest  explanation  of  what  his  views  are  or  why 
he  is  going  abroad.  He  pleads  for  unity,  but  he  him 
self  is  responsible  for  any  division  among  the  Amer 
ican  people  as  regards  the  Peace  Conference  at  this 
time. 

"He  has  never  permitted  the  American  people  to 
pass  on  his  peace  proposals,  nor  has  he  ever  made 
these  propositions  clear  and  straightforward. 

"As  for  the  '14  points/  so  far  as  the  American 
people  have  expressed  any  opinion  upon  them,  it  was 
on  November  5  when  they  rejected  them. 

"What  Mr.  Wilson  says  of  these '  14  points '  is  sheer 
nonsense.  He  says  the  American  army  was  fighting 
for  them.  Why,  there  was  not  one  American  soldier 
in  a  thousand  that  ever  heard  of  them !  The  Ameri 
can  army  was  fighting  to  smash  Germany.  The 
American  people  wanted  Germany  smashed. 

"The  Allies  have  never  accepted  the  '14  points/ 
The  United  States  has  never  accepted  them.  Ger 
many  and  Austria  enthusiastically  accepted  them. 
Here  certain  individuals  including  President  Wilson, 
Mr.  Hearst,  Mr.  Viereck,  as  I  understand  it,  and  a 
number  of  pro-Germans  and  pacifists  and  interna 
tional  Socialists  have  accepted  them;  but  neither 


THE  COLONEL  AND  THE  TREATY    309 

the  American  people  nor  the  American  Congress  has 
accepted  them. 

"Mr.  Wilson  himself  has  rejected  at  least  one 
outright  and  has  interpreted  another  in  the  directly 
opposite  sense  to  its  plain  and  obvious  meaning. 

"The  simple  truth  is  that  some  of  the  '  14  points' 
are  thoroughly  mischievous  under  any  interpreta 
tion,  and  that  most  of  the  others  are  so  vague  and 
ambiguous  that  it  is  nonsense  to  try  to  do  anything 
with  them  until  they  have  been  defined  and  made 
definite. 

"Inasmuch  as  Mr.  Wilson  is  going  over,  it  is  ear 
nestly  to  be  hoped  that  it  is  his  business  not  to  try 
to  be  an  umpire  between  our  Allies  and  our  enemies, 
but  act  loyally  as  one  of  the  Allies.  We  have  n't 
suffered  anything  like  as  much  and  we  have  not 
rendered  as  much  service  as  the  leading  Allies.  It 
is  the  British  navy  and  the  French,  British,  and 
Italian  armies  that  have  done  most  to  bring  about 
the  downfall  of  Germany  and  therefore  the  safety 
of  the  United  States.  It  is  our  business  to  stand  by 
our  Allies. 

'The  British  Empire  imperatively  needs  the 
greatest  navy  in  the  world  and  this  we  should  in 
stantly  concede.  Our  need  for  a  great  navy  comes 
second  to  hers  and  we  should  have  the  second  largest 
navy  in  the  world.  Similarly  France  needs  greater 


3io  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

military  strength  than  we  do,  but  we  should  have 
our  young  men  trained  to  arms  on  the  general  lines 
of  the  Swiss  system. 

"The  phrase  'freedom  of  the  seas'  may  mean 
anything  or  nothing.  If  it  is  to  be  interpreted  as  Ger 
many  interprets  it,  it  is  thoroughly  mischievous. 
There  must  be  no  interpretation  of  the  phrase  that 
would  prevent  the  English  navy  in  the  event  of  any 
future  war  from  repeating  the  tremendous  service 
it  has  rendered  in  this  war. 

"The  British  must,  of  course,  keep  the  colonies 
they  have  captured." 

Here  the  Colonel  laid  down  his  irreducible  mini 
mum  of  what  the  United  States  should  insist  upon 
printed  above. 

"As  for  Mr.  Wilson  at  the  Peace  Conference," 
he  concluded,  "it  is  his  business  to  stand  by  France, 
England,  and  our  other  Allies  and  present  with  them 
a  solid  front  to  Germany." 


ENGLAND  AND  THE  REST  OF  THE  WORLD 

December  19,  1918 

MR.  LEARY: 

Miss  Strieker  called  up  this  morning  to  say  that 
Colonel  Roosevelt  would  like  you  to  call  on  him  to 
morrow  at  n  o'clock  at  the  Roosevelt  Hospital,  and 
bring  P.  W.  Wilson  with  you.  He  wants  to  talk  over  the 
article  Mr.  Wilson  has  in  this  morning's  Tribune.  If  it 
can't  be  arranged  for  to-morrow  morning,  then  Saturday 
morning  will  do. 

K.  P. 

Mr.  Wilson's  telephone  number  is  Bryant  1451. 


THIS  note  was  the  prelude  to  one  of  the  most  im 
portant,  as  well  as  one  of  the  last,  talks  I  had  with 
Colonel  Roosevelt.  In  it  he  made  the  flat  assertion 
that  it  lay  with  the  United  States  and  England  to 
preserve  the  peace  of  the  world ;  that  he  could  foresee 
no  reason  why  there  should  not  be  a  general  arbitra 
tion  treaty  between  the  two  countries,  but  that  such 
a  treaty  could  not  with  safety  be  made  with  Japan 
and  perhaps  not  with  Italy. 

"I  see  no  reason  —  there  is  no  reason,"  said  he, 
"why  we  should  not  have  a  general  arbitration 
treaty  with  Great  Britain.  I  could  not,  would  not, 
have  said  that  five  years  ago,  but  I  can  now  conceive 
of  no  question  that  may  arise  between  the  two  coun- 


3i2  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

tries  that  cannot  in  safety  and  honor  be  left  to  arbi 
tration.  Working  together  they  have  the  peace  of  the 
world  in  their  hands. 

"I  would  not  favor,  I  would  not  approve  of  such 
a  treaty  with  Japan.  It  would  be  dangerous.  Such  a 
treaty  with  Italy  might  conceivably  be  dangerous. 
But  in  such  a  treaty  with  Great  Britain  there  would 
be  no  danger  to  either  party. " 

Colonel  Roosevelt  had  two  things  in  mind  in  send 
ing  for  Mr.  Wilson  —  to  show  his  appreciation  of 
Wilson's  Tribune  article  referred  to  in  Miss  Phelps's 
note,  and  to  give  him  assistance  in  making  America's 
position  clear  to  his  English  readers.  The  article  re 
ferred  to  a  meeting  a  few  nights  earlier  of  the  so- 
called  League  of  Small  Nations  to  which  Wilson  had 
been  bidden  to  speak.  He  went  there  expecting  it  to 
be,  as  the  name  indicated,  a  meeting  in  the  interest 
of  small  nations.  Instead,  it  was  devoted  mainly  to 
demands  for  the  independence  of  India  and  to  gen 
eral  denunciation  of  all  things  English.  Wilson,  a 
former  M.P.,  and  a  veteran  of  the  press  gallery  at 
Westminster,  took  up  the  challenge,  when  it  came 
his  turn  to  speak,  with  the  declaration:  "I  am  an 
Englishman."  Despite  hisses  he  had  his  say,  and  with 
characteristic  British  doggedness,  thereafter  pur 
sued  his  country's  assailants  through  the  press. 

Colonel  Roosevelt  had  very  little  to  say  about  this 


ENGLAND  AND  THE  WORLD        313 

incident.  Instead  he  plunged,  almost  immediately 
Wilson  was  introduced  and  he  had  apologized  for 
having  to  receive  him  in  a  hospital,  into  the  question 
of  President  Wilson's  mission  abroad  and  the  way 
matters  were  working  out. 

"As  an  American,"  said  he,  "  I  am  glad  and  proud 
of  the  reception  given  Mr.  Wilson.  I  know,  you  know, 
it  is  to  the  President  of  the  United  States  these  hon 
ors,  these  acclamations  are  given.  As  an  American 
I  am  naturally  gratified.  But  I  very  much  fear  that 
Mr.  Wilson  does  not  appreciate  the  fact  that  these 
honors,  this  wonderful  welcome,  are  extended  to 
President  Wilson  and  not  to  Wilson  the  individual. 
There  is  danger  in  this  to  an  egoist  of  the  Wilson 
type. 

"The  greatest  danger,  however,  is  that  the  people 
of  England,  the  people  of  Europe,  will  take  Mr.  Wil 
son  at  his  own  appraisal,  at  the  value  he  sets  upon 
himself,  and  ignore  the  sentiment  of  the  Republican 
leaders,  the  Republican  Senate,  in  the  matter  of  a 
league  of  nations.  They  should  realize  that  Mr.  Wil 
son  may  sell  what  he  cannot  deliver,  may  promise 
more  than  he  can  deliver.  They  should  not  forget 
that  in  the  recent  election  Mr.  Wilson,  by  demand 
ing  that  the  American  people  elect  a  Congress  fa 
vorable  to  him  and  his  views,  demanded,  in  effect, 
a  vote  of  confidence,  and  that  the  American  people, 


3i4  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

by  voting  him  a  Republican  House  and  a  Republi 
can  Senate,  gave  him  a  vote  of  no  confidence. 

"The  vote  was  a  repudiation  of  Mr.  Wilson's  de 
sire  to  have  a  free  hand,  and  should  be,  as  it  is,  notice 
to  the  world,  that  there  are  other  opinions  and  other 
persons  to  be  considered  —  notice  that  any  treaty 
Mr.  Wilson  may  make  will  be  and  must  be  subject 
to  scrutiny  and  examination,  and,  therefore,  should 
be  made  with  due  regard  to  that  provision  in  our 
Constitution  giving  the  Senate  coordinate  power  in 
treaty-making. 

1 '  A  league  of  nations  per  se  may  be  a  very  desirable 
thing.  It  may  be  a  very  dangerous  thing.  It  may  be 
an  instrument  that  will  do  the  very  thing  it  is  de 
signed  to  prevent  —  cause  war  and  talk  of  war. 

"  I  see  no  reason  —  there  is  no  reason  —  why  we 
should  not  have  a  general  arbitration  treaty  with 
Great  Britain.  I  could  not,  would  not  have  said  that 
five  years  ago,  but  I  can  now  conceive  of  no  ques 
tion  that  may  arise  between  the  two  countries  that 
cannot  in  safety  be  left  to  arbitration.  Working  to 
gether  they  have  the  peace  of  the  world  in  their 
hands. 

"I  would  not  favor,  I  would  not  approve  such  a 
treaty  with  Japan.  It  would  be  dangerous.  Such  a 
treaty  with  Italy  conceivably  might  be  dangerous. 
But  in  such  a  treaty  between  the  United  States  and 


ENGLAND  AND  THE  WORLD        315 

Great  Britain  there  would  be  no  danger  to  either 
party. 

"We  have  a  common  language  and  common  ideals. 
Our  laws  have  the  same  common  roots.  There  is  no 
question  on  which  we  can  well  quarrel,  for  our  inter 
ests  are  alike.  We  have  nothing  England  is  likely  to 
wish  to  take  away  from  us,  and  I  am  sure  we  envy 
England  possession  of  nothing  she  has.  Her  navy, 
great  though  it  may  be,  is  not  a  menace  to  our  com 
merce.  In  the  years  before  we  officially  recognized 
the  fact  that  Germany  was  making  war  upon  us,  it 
stood  between  us  and  the  consequences  of  a  policy 
of  unpreparedness.  Talk  about  freedom  of  the  seas 
—  the  British  Navy  has  kept  them  free. 

"A  general  arbitration  treaty  with  Japan  is  im 
possible.  Every  one  who  has  given  the  subject  care 
ful  thought  knows  that.  At  the  moment  we  are  at 
peace  with  Japan.  To-morrow,  the  immigration 
question  may  bring  us  to  the  edge  of  war  again. 

"That  question,  immigration,  is  one  that  we  can 
not  and  must  not  undertake  to  arbitrate.  It  would 
not  arise  with  England.  Your  immigration  here  is 
small.  It  is  furthermore  a  highly  desirable  immigra 
tion.  Japan's  is  not  desirable  and  is  not  wanted. 
Nor  can  there  be  arbitration  on  internal  matters 
including  the  tariff  which  is  an  internal  matter 
and  must  be  so  considered.  With  Japan,  however, 


316  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

the  danger  at  all  times  is  immigration,  and  allied 
questions. 

"There  is  also  objection  to  such  a  treaty  with 
Italy.  It  is  conceivable  —  in  fact  possible  —  that 
the  time  is  not  far  distant  when  the  United  States 
may  wish  to  limit  or  restrict  immigration  from  Italy. 
I  have  the  greatest  respect  for  the  Italian,  but  it  is 
possible  to  get  too  much  even  of  a  good  thing,  and 
conceivable  that  the  time  will  come  when  we  will 
have  all  the  undigested  Italian  immigration  we  may 
wish.  Then  we  will  wish  to  close  the  door.  We  could 
not  and  would  not  arbitrate  that. 

"Therefore,  a  general  arbitration  agreement  is  not 
possible  or  desirable.  An  honest  man  will  not  make 
a  contract  he  cannot  keep.  We  are  not  yet,  thank 
God,  converted  to  the  German  idea  that  contracts 
are  scraps  of  paper. 

"The  only  thing  I  can  see  that  may  make  friction 
between  the  United  States  and  Great  Britain  is  the 
Irish  question.  That,  however,  is  an  internal  ques 
tion  that  England  sooner  or  later  must  settle  for  her 
own  comfort  and  convenience  if  nothing  else.  It  is  a 
matter  that  makes  for  trouble  within  the  family  — 
it  is,  as  you  know,  a  cause  of  annoyance  and  an  issue 
of  importance  in  Canada  and  Australia.  Its  clearing 
up  will  be  welcomed  by  the  Dominions,  and,  I  be 
lieve,  by  the  people  of  England  generally.  They  wish 


ENGLAND  AND  THE  WORLD        317 

to  do  justice  by  Ireland.  Eventually  they  will  do 


so." 


The  Colonel  had  prefaced  this  talk  by  a  word  as  to 
his  condition.  He  received  us,  seated  in  a  great  arm 
chair,  with  a  dressing-robe  partly  concealing,  partly 
revealing,  that,  save  for  a  coat,  he  was  fully  dressed. 
His  color  was  good,  his  voice  strong,  his  eye  clear. 
The  only  indication  other  than  his  presence  in  a 
hospital  that  anything  was  wrong  was  a  slight  swell 
ing  in  his  right  arm  and  hand. 

"I'm  here,"  he  said,  " mainly  because  I  don't 
happen  to  have  a  town  house,  and  it  is  not  at  all  easy 
for  the  doctor  who  wishes  to  keep  an  eye  on  this 
inflammatory  rheumatism  of  mine  to  run  out  to 
Oyster  Bay.  They  sort  of  like  to  have  me  here  —  at 
least  they  don't  object  to  my  presence,  so  I  'm  here. 
I'll  leave  in  a  few  days  now  so  as  to  be  home  for 
Christmas  with  the  grandchildren." 

Leaving  the  hospital,  Mr.  Wilson,  not  exactly 
clear  as  to  why  Colonel  Roosevelt  had  sent  for  him, 
asked  what  he  should  do. 

"I  appreciate  that  I  have  been  honored  by  Mr. 
Roosevelt,"  said  he,  "but  I  realize  that  he  is  far  too 
busy  a  man  to  give  up  the  large  part  of  a  morning 
to  a  visiting  Englishman,  merely  for  the  sake  of 
talking  to  him.  Yet  he  was  not  talking  for  publica 
tion;  you  know  he  stipulated  that  he  was  not  being 


318  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

interviewed  and  must  not  be  quoted.  He  made  it 
clear,  however,  that  you  know  what  he  has  in  mind 
and  that  he  relies  on  your  having  that  thing  done. 
Now:  what  did  he  have  in  mind?" 

"Two  things,"  said  I.  "First,  he's  a  splendid 
fighter  and  admires  courage  in  others.  In  his  sending 
for  you  on  the  strength  of  your  melee  with  the 
League  of  Small  Nations,  one  first-class  fighting  man 
was  extending  the  right  hand  of  fellowship  to  a  kin 
dred  spirit,  and  as  a  mark  of  that  fellowship  and  his 
appreciation  giving  you  information  that  almost 
any  American  reporter  I  know  of  would  risk  his 
right  eye  to  get.  Second,  and  more  important, 
Colonel  Roosevelt  recognizes  the  vast  importance  of 
getting  the  real  situation  in  America,  the  real  Amer 
ican  sentiment,  before  the  English  people.  You  are 
now  in  a  position  to  state  very  clearly  what  the 
Republican  attitude  is  and  will  be,  for  Colonel 
Roosevelt  is  to-day  the  head  and  the  voice  of  the 
Republican  Party  and  in  all  human  probability,  as 
matters  now  stand,  will  be  the  next  President. 

"This  talk  leaves  you  in  a  position  to  say  authori 
tatively,  and  without  fear  of  successful  challenge, 
just  where  Roosevelt  and  those  for  whom  he  speaks 
do  stand.  In  any  event,  you  cannot  now  go  wrong  on 
any  despatch  involving  this  feature  of  the  situation. 

"As  you  will  soon  be  in  London,  it  may  be  that 


ENGLAND  AND  THE  WORLD        319 

you  will  wish  to  await  your  arrival  there  before 
writing  anything. 

"In  any  event,  you  are  in  a  position  to  tell  the 
folks  at  home  just  how  things  stand  here.  If  you 
write,  you  cannot,  of  course,  quote  Colonel  Roose 
velt.  You  may,  however,  say  what '  friends  of  Colonel 
Roosevelt'  say,  or,  'persons  in  the  confidence  of 
Colonel  Roosevelt  say  he  feels  or  believes  so  and  so/ 
That  will  be  all  right." 

On  the  following  day  I  saw  the  Colonel  again  for  a 
few  minutes  and  told  him  what  I  had  told  Wilson. 

"Quite  right,"  said  he.  "If  he  does  that,  he  will 
help  his  people  by  giving  them  a  real  view  of  the  way 
matters  stand  here,  and  that  will  help  us.  It  is  folly, 
almost  criminal  folly,  to  lead  the  people  of  Europe 
to  expect  the  impossible.  The  awakening  will  be 
painful  and  the  after  effects  bad,  if  they  are  led  to 
believe  we  are  prepared  to  surrender  our  nationality. 
We  are  nationalists,  not  internationalists,  just  as  we 
are  monogamists  and  not  polygamists,  and  we  love 
our  country  above  all  other  countries. 

"Do  you  think  Wilson  clearly  understood  me?" 

I  said  I  did. 

"I'm  glad  of  that.  What  these  fool  international 
ists  do  not  see  is  that  there  are  things  that  cannot 
be  arbitrated,  and  it's  not  wise  or  honest  to  agree  to 
arbitrate  where  one  knows  non-arbitrable  matters 


320  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

are  likely  to  arise.  You've  patiently  sat  through 
enough  of  my  speeches  to  be  reasonably  familiar 
with  my  assertion  that  a  man  does  not  ask  arbitra 
tion  when  a  blackguard  slaps  his  wife's  face.  The 
Lord  knows  outsiders  may  think,  after  what  has 
happened  the  last  few  years,  that  we  are  so  gaited, 
but  we  are  not. 

11 1  might  have  told  Wilson  that  I  am  not  concerned 
about  the  Anglo-Japanese  alliance.  It  is  of  very  lim 
ited  value  to  either  nation,  for  it  is  an  unnatural  alli 
ance.  The  real  alliance,  the  alliance  worth  while,  is 
where  the  parties'  interests  are  common  interests, 
where  they  think  along  the  same  broad  lines  and 
their  aspirations  do  not  conflict.  Such  an  alliance 
need  not  be  written,  nor  signed,  nor  sealed.  It  will 
stand  on  its  own  bottom  and  by  its  inherent  strength. 
On  the  other  hand,  the  written  agreement,  where 
these  conditions  do  not  attain,  is  never  of  lasting 
value.  Can  you  imagine  the  English  people  siding 
with  Japan  against  us?  Neither  can  I.  Nor  can  any 
other  man  that  is  sane  and  honest  with  himself  and 
has  any  real  knowledge  of  the  English  people.  Even 
Hearst  would  have  difficulty  in  imagining  such  a 
thing  were  he  only  approximately  honest  with  him 
self. 

"What  I  am  afraid  of  is  that  this  man  Wilson  will 
arouse  hopes  that  never  can  be  realized,  and  that  the 


ENGLAND  AND  THE  WORLD        321 

United  States  will  suffer  from  the  resentment  that 
must  follow.  Then  the  very  crowds  that  acclaim  him 
now  will  rise  up  and  damn  him  and  us  along  with 
him,  and  we  '11  be  left,  as  we  were  before  we  asserted 
our  manhood  and  went  into  this  war,  the  best-hated 
people  in  Europe. 

"Wilson  is  playing  a  dangerous  game.  He's  play 
ing  diplomacy  with  the  most  skilled  diplomatists. 
Just  now  he's  got  all  the  advantage.  But  he  is  in  the 
position  of  the  tenderfoot  with  money  playing  poker 
with  professional  gamblers.  In  the  beginning  he  has 
the  advantage  of  money,  they  of  experience.  In  the 
end  they  have  the  money  and  he  some  experience. 
The  difference  is  that  in  one  case  an  individual  is 
gambling  with  his  own,  while  in  this  case  Mr.  Wilson 
is  playing  with  other  folks'  chips.  If  my  poker  terms 
are  bad,  the  other  members  of  the  Charley  Thomp 
son  Finger  Club  will  correct  you. 

"They  will  play  with  Mr.  Wilson.  They  will  give 
him  a  grand  time,  and  he  will,  unless  I  am  greatly 
mistaken,  give  them  promises  the  American  people 
will  not  endorse.  There  will  be  delay  and  confusion 
and  in  the  end  the  thing  will  have  to  be  done  right. 

"It  is,  of  course,  possible  that  anything  Mr. 
Wilson  agrees  to  may  be  ratified  by  the  Senate.  But 
it  will  only  make  for  trouble,  bitter  trouble  later  on, 
if  promises  are  made  that  we  cannot  keep." 


322  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

On  the  death  of  Colonel  Roosevelt  I  cabled  Mr. 
Wilson  in  London  advising  him  that  in  my  opinion 
the  time  had  come  when  he  could  tell  the  story  of 
that  Friday  morning  in  Roosevelt  Hospital.  I  believe 
he  made  some  reference  to  the  matter,  but  did  not 
go  into  it  in  detail  or  at  any  considerable  length. 

It  is  not  good  form  for  one  newspaper  man  to  ask 
another  why  he  did  or  did  not  do  a  certain  thing. 
Therefore  I  have  never  asked  my  friend  Wilson 
"why." 

If,  however,  I  were  to  guess,  I  would  not  hesitate 
to  say  the  reason  for  the  matter  not  being  given  in 
full  to  the  people  of  England,  and  through  them  to 
all  Europe,  was  that  the  then  editor  of  the  London 
Ne*vs  was  and  is  of  those  who  worship  at  the  shrine 
of  Woodrow  Wilson  and  acclaim  him  as  the  long- 
awaited  Messiah. 


MR.  WILSON'S  "IDEALS" 

IT  is  a  mistake  to  speak  of  'Mr.  Wilson's  ideals' 
or  of  Mr.  Wilson  as  an  idealist.  He  is  merely  a 
selfish,  dishonest  politician." 

Shortly  before  he  died,  while  he  was  yet  in  Roose 
velt  Hospital  under  treatment  for  inflammatory 
rheumatism,  Colonel  Roosevelt  so  expressed  himself 
in  commenting  upon  news  and  editorial  references 
to  the  President.  Just  before  he  died,  on  the  Friday 
before  in  fact,  he  sent  a  letter  to  Ogden  Mills  Reid, 
proprietor  of  the  New  York  Tribune,  protesting  in 
much  the  language  quoted  above  against  an  edito 
rial  reference  in  Mr.  Reid's  paper  to  Mr.  Wilson's 
idealism. 

The  Colonel  sent  Mr.  Reid,  of  whom  he  was  very 
fond,  a  half -bantering  sort  of  note  describing  himself 
as  "A  Constant  Reader"  who  felt  he  must  protest 
against  misstatement  of  fact.  The  letter  was  dic 
tated  —  the  Colonel  could  not  then  use  the  pen  and 
therefore  signed  and  initialled  by  Miss  Josephine  M. 
Strieker  to  the  end  his  secretary  and  most  devoted 
follower.  Mailed  in  New  York  City,  it  did  not  reach 
Mr.  Reid  until  after  the  Colonel  had  died,  and  was, 
so  to  speak,  a  voice  from  the  tomb. 

"Mr.  Wilson  never  had  an  ideal  in  his  life;  he  is 


324  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

merely  a  selfish  politician,"  was  an  assertion  often 
made  by  him.  "One  of  the  difficulties  in  the  present 
situation  [the  war  and  immediately  thereafter]  is 
that  the  man  in  the  street  does  not  readily  awaken 
to  this  fact.  Nor  do  many  of  the  politicians.  Mr. 
Wilson  as  a  politician  is  the  master  of  most  of  them, 
only  they  do  not  know  it.  They  ascribe  all  of  his 
success  to  luck.  They  do  not  realize  that  much  of  this 
that  they  call  luck  is  mere  opportunism  on  his  part. 
In  so  far  as  a  thing  may  serve  his  end,  he  is  abso 
lutely  unscrupulous. 

"A  case  in  point  is  this  cry  on  which  he  was  re- 
elected  : '  He  kept  us  out  of  war.'  No  one  knew  better 
than  Mr.  Wilson  that  Germany  was  at  war  on  us 
and  that  under  his  direction  we  were  backing  into 
war  stern  foremost.  It  was  a  catch-cry,  a  cry  calcu 
lated  to  attract  the  vote  of  the  pacifists  and  the 
peace-at-any-price  people.  With  its  honesty,  Mr. 
Wilson  had  no  concern.  His  only  interest  was  in  the 
way  it  might  work,  might  advance  his  political  for 
tunes. 

"He  was  as  honest  in  this,  however,  as  in  his 
'strict  accountability*  notes.  As  Bryan  is  reported 
to  have  told  Dumba,  these  notes  were  mainly  in 
tended  for  home  consumption  and  were  not  to  be 
taken  too  seriously  in  Berlin  or  Vienna.  I  honestly 
believe  that  Bryan  gave  that  word  to  Dumba  ex- 


THINKING  IT  OVER 


MR.  WILSON'S  IDEALS  325 

actly  as  he  is  understood  to  have  done  and  that  he 
was  entirely  honest  in  his  statement,  however  doubt 
ful  the  propriety  of  his  so  doing  may  have  been." 

Colonel  Roosevelt  many  times  spoke  with  appre 
hension  of  the  effect  Mr.  Wilson's  policy  toward 
Germany  would  have  on  the  rising  generation. 

"To  revert  back  a  bit,"  he  once  said,  "you  spoke 
of  your  boy  being  a  hero-worshipper.  All  real  boys, 
all  worth-while  boys,  are.  Do  you  know  that  one  of 
the  regrettable  things  about  this  Administration, 
these  four  years  of  nightmare,  is  the  possible  effect 
on  the  boys  now  growing  up.  What  inspiration  is  this 
man  Wilson  to  any  boy?  What  sort  of  a  boy  would 
he  be  hero  to?  What  has  he  done,  what  can  any  man 
of  his  type  do  to  inspire  in  any  boy  a  love  of  country? 
What  sort  of  a  country  would  he  leave  a  boy  to  be 
proud  of  and  loyal  to?  That  is  one  of  the  saddest 
things  of  the  Administration. 

"Another  thing,  contempt  for  the  man  has  in  a 
way  led  to  contempt  for  the  office.  Only  the  other 
day  a  gentleman  spoke  of  hearing  Wilson  described 
in  one  of  our  best  clubs  in  language  rarely  heard  out 
side  of  a  bar-room.  It  was  a  shock  to  him.  I  was  as 
thoroughly  disliked  while  President  as  any  man  could 
be  by  certain  elements  that  had  a  good  reason  for 
disliking  me,  but  they  did  not  hold  me  in  contempt, 
and  they  did  not  hold  my  office  in  contempt." 


326  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

Much  as  he  disliked  Mr.  Wilson,  and  he  was  frank 
in  saying,  "  I  despise  the  man  and  dislike  his  policies 
to  the  point  of  hate,"  as  he  did  in  describing  the  so- 
called  Gary  dinner,  Colonel  Roosevelt  never  abused 
Mr.  Wilson  as  an  individual  or  referred  to  his  acts 
as  an  individual.  Gossip  that  was  common  property 
in  Washington,  and  the  clubs  and  newspaper  offices 
of  the  country  he  never  referred  to,  and  those  closest 
to  him  knew  better  than  to  bring  them  up.  The 
Colonel  was  no  gossip  and  no  friend  of  gossipers. 
The  nearest  approach  to  reference  to  such  matters, 
and  one  of  the  two  instances  I  know  of  where  he 
indicated  that  he  had  knowledge  of  this  talk,  was 
one  day  when  he  deprecated  the  manner  in  which 
political  foes  of  Mr.  Wilson  were  fighting  him. 

"I  am  not  at  all  interested  in  petty  gossip/'  said 
he.  "  It  is  a  waste  of  time.  The  way  to  fight  this  man 
is  in  the  open,  smashing  him  anywhere  along  the 
line  that  he  leaves  an  opening.  It  is  the  only  way  to 
fight  him.  Were  I  a  master  of  ridicule,  which  I  am 
not,  I  would  rejoice  in  the  openings  he  gives.  Invec 
tive  and  abuse  would  be,  as  it  nearly  always  is,  a 
mistake.  That  is  particularly  true  now,  for  people 
will  resent  much  of  that  directed  against  the  Presi 
dent.  That  was  not  always  the  case  when  I  was  in 
the  White  House"  (this  with  a  grin),  "  but  it  is  very 
much  the  case  now. 


MR.  WILSON'S  IDEALS  327 

"  In  time  Mr.  Wilson  will  be  the  best-damned  man 
in  America  since  the  days  of  James  Buchanan  and 
Andy  Johnson,  but  that  time  is  not  now.  When  that 
time  comes,  I  shall  be  sorry  for  Mr.  Wilson.  He,  how 
ever,  will  not  be  sorry  for  himself.  He  will  figuratively 
gather  his  cloak  about  him  and  from  his  great  height 
look  down  upon  and  be  sorrowfully  contemptuous 
of  those  pigmies  of  mortals  unable  to  see  things  as 
he  sees  and  has  seen  them.  It  will  never  occur  to 
him  that  those  who  have  ceased  to  acclaim  him  may 
by  any  chance  be  right  and  he  be  wrong." 

Just  once,  and  once  only,  did  I  hear  the  Colonel 
use  anything  like  profanity  toward  Mr.  Wilson.  This 
was  on  the  morning  the  famous  Zimmermann  note 
was  made  public.  The  Colonel  had  not  read  the 
morning  papers  when  N.  A.  Jennings,  of  the  New 
York  Herald,  and  I  called  on  him  in  his  suite  in  the 
Metropolitan  Magazine  offices.  Jennings  had  an  early 
edition  of  the  Evening  Sun  which  he  laid  on  the 
Colonel's  desk.  The  great  black  headlines  caught  his 
eye  and  he  grabbed  the  paper  to  get  the  high  points 
of  the  despatch.  In  an  instant  he  was  on  the  other 
side  of  the  desk,  crushing  the  paper  in  his  rage  and 
uttering  words  similar  to  those  employed  by  the 
Father  of  his  Country  at  the  Battle  of  Monmouth. 

In  another  instant,  he  had  recovered  himself. 

"  Boys,"  said  he  with  a  half  smile,  "  I'm  sorry,  but 


328  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

you  have  now  heard  some  of  the  more  or  less  — 
mostly  less  —  justly  famed  Roosevelt  profanity  — 
some  of  the  Roosevelt  capacity  to  rage.  I  don't  apolo 
gize  for  it  —  this  man  is  enough  to  make  the  saints, 
and  the  angels,  yes,  the  apostles  swear,  and  I  would 
not  blame  them.  My  God,  why  don't  he  do  some 
thing?  It  is  beyond  me." 

''Oh,  give  him  time,"  drawled  Jennings.  "In  time 
he'll  move.  Everything  will  work  out  all  right." 

"Work  out  all  right,  yes,  it  will  work  out  all  right; 
it  will  have  to  work  out  all  right;  the  American 
people  will  make  it  work  out  all  right;  but,  oh,  the 
cost,  in  blood,  in  treasure,  in  suffering,  this  delay, 
this  policy  of  writing  notes  and  doing  nothing  must 
in  the  end  involve!" 

At  this  meeting  the  Colonel  declined  to  speak  for 
publication,  adding  that  he  might  say  something 
later. 

"Just  at  this  moment,"  said  he,  "I  feel  that  it  is 
best  for  me  to  say  nothing.  The  facts  are  strong 
enough.  Let  them  sink  in.  Then  it  may  be  time  for 
me  to  talk." 

Vastly  different  was  the  reception  the  Colonel 
gave  Mr.  Wilson's  appeal  to  the  country  for  the  elec 
tion  of  a  Democratic  Congress  in  1918.  The  appeal, 
printed  in  the  early  afternoon  papers,  sent  me  hiking 
for  Sagamore  Hill.  The  Colonel  met  me  on  the  piazza. 


MR.  WILSON'S  IDEALS  329 

"  By  Jove,  Jack,  I  am  glad  to  see  you.  It 's  splendid 
of  you  to  come.  Yes,  I  Ve  seen  that  appeal  to  the 
country  and  I'm  just  delighted. 

"  I  am  as  pleased  as  Punch.  It  is  exactly  as  I  would 
have  ordered  it.  He  gives  me  a  splendid  opening, 
and  to-morrow  I  will  send  out  the  fighting  part  of 
my  Carnegie  Hall  speech.*' 

For  this  meeting,  called  to  ratify  the  Republican 
State  and  Congressional  ticket,  Colonel  Roosevelt 
had  prepared  a  set  speech  which  was  then  in  the 
hands  of  the  press  associations.  Naturally  it  did  not 
touch  on  Mr.  Wilson's  appeal. 

"  We  now  see  the  real  Mr.  Wilson,"  he  went  on  to 
say.  "  It's  not  a  different  Mr.  Wilson  than  the  one 
we  have  known,  but  not  the  Mr.  Wilson  he  would 
have  us  know  or  that  all  of  the  people  have  known. 
Every  one  can  now  see  Mr.  Wilson  the  politician  in 
all  his  nakedness  and  minus  his  camouflage. 

"It  is  regrettable  that  any  American  President 
should  see  fit  to  make  such  a  lamentable  exhibition 
of  himself  at  a  time  like  this.  It  is,  however,  fortu 
nate  in  that  it  will  show  the  country  Mr.  Wilson  as 
he  is  —  the  real  Mr.  Wilson. 

"I  shall  certainly  take  advantage  of  this  opening 
in  my  speech  Monday. 

11  Did  I  ever  tell  you  the  story  of  the  New  Bedford 
whaling  captain  who,  when  called  to  account  for 


330  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

knocking  down  the  mate  of  another  ship,  explained 
that  he  did  so  because  this  man  'held  himself  so 
inviting'?  Mr.  Wilson  has  held  himself  very  inviting. 

"  I  shall,  of  course,  try  to  be  very  careful  and  not 
to  abuse  or  seem  to  abuse  him,  but  I  certainly  am 
grateful  for  this  opening.  I  am  glad  the  real  Mr. 
Wilson  has  revealed  himself." 

"Colonel,"  I  suggested,  "I  hope  you  will  use  that 
expression  'the  real  Mr.  Wilson.'" 

"Exactly  as  I  used  your  expression  on  dealing 
with  Germany — 'compounding  a  felony.'  By  the 
way,  I  am  very  glad  we  agreed  to  leave  politics  out 
of  that  statement  of  October  13." 

This  was  a  statement  in  which  the  Colonel  had 
set  out  to  advise  all  good  Americans  who  felt  as 
Senator  Miles  Poindexter  spoke  to  vote  the  Re 
publican  ticket.  This  idea  was  abandoned  on  the 
ground  that  it  left  the  way  open  to  attack,  and  that 
in  the  course  of  the  campaign  a  better  opportunity 
for  such  an  appeal  would  present  itself. 

"To  get  back  to  the  real  Mr.  Wilson,"  the  Colonel 
went  on,  "I  do  not  pretend  to  be  able  to  predict 
what  the  people  may  do  any  more  than  I  can  predict 
the  result  of  a  great  war,  but  I  think  the  gentleman 
will  find  he  has  made  a  mistake.  There  is,  however, 
no  limit  as  to  what  he  will  do  to  get  or  retain  power. 

"Do  you  know  that  they  [the  Democrats]  are  now 


MR.  WILSON'S  IDEALS  331 

organizing  the  various  national  elements  in  this 
country  as  units  that  may  be  as  anti-American  as 
they  wish  so  long  as  they  are  Democrats?  This 
Americanization  Commission  is  working  along  those 
lines.  They  have  n't  exactly  lined  up  the  pro-Ger 
mans  yet,  but  they  are  getting  around  them  via  the 
Liberty  loans. 

"You  know  that  various  of  these  foreign  groups 
kept  aloof  from  the  Liberty  loans  in  the  early  days 
of  the  war.  Now  they  have  found  it  a  cheap  way  to 
become  Americanized.  They  take  one  of  these  groups 
who  happens  to  be  a  Democrat,  place  him  promi 
nently  on  a  committee,  and  seek  to  round  up  his  fel 
lows  through  him.  It  is  the  opposite  of  what  should 
be  done. 

"But,  I  tell  you,  I  'm  as  pleased  as  Punch  over  this 
latest  of  Mr.  Wilson's.  There'll  be  lots  of  fun  in  the 
next  two  years." 

I  told  Charles  T.  White,  of  the  Tribune,  of  the 
Colonel's  intention  of  being  conservative  in  his 
treatment  of  Mr.  Wilson's  appeal.  After  the  meeting, 
White,  a  veteran  of  many  a  political  campaign,  came 
to  me. 

11 1  thought  you  said  Colonel  Roosevelt  was  going 
to  be  conservative?  Why,  in  a  nice  way,  he  called 
him  everything  but  a  dog-thief.  I  'm  glad  he  was  not 
radical  if  that's  his  idea  of  being  conservative." 


332  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

The  Colonel  laughed  when  I  repeated  this  to  him. 

"You  may  tell  the  Honorable  Charlie  White/' 
said  he,  "that  he's  a  good  fellow  and  I  like  him,  but 
that  until  this  time  I  never  suspected  him  of  being  a 
mind  reader.  He  has  gauged  my  sentiments  exactly." 

These  sentiments,  Colonel  Roosevelt  had  previ 
ously  told  me,  were  best  expressed  in  the  conclusion 
of  his  Cooper  Union  address  at  the  end  of  the  1916 
campaign.  This  was  the  famous  "ghost  speech." 
This  speech  he  prepared,  and  for  once  reading  an 
address  did  not  seem  to  detract  from  its  appeal. 
This,  by  the  way,  was  read  to  as  mixed  an  audience 
as  one  would  ask  to  find,  even  in  Cooper  Union. 
Most  of  the  seats  were  reserved  and  were  filled  by 
up  town  folk  in  evening  clothes  for  the  most  part. 
The  seats  not  claimed  by  the  more  well-to-do  were 
taken  by  the  East-Siders  who  habitually  attend 
everything  in  Cooper  Union.  The  result  was,  para 
doxical  as  the  statement  may  seem,  an  audience 
more  representative  of  New  York  than  one  ordi 
narily  finds  at  a  political  meeting. 

Throughout  the  address  the  Colonel  was  fre 
quently  interrupted  with  cheers,  but  it  was  not  until 
the  close  that  the  real  demonstration  came.  As  he 
swung  into  the  last  paragraph  he  threw  his  manu 
script  to  the  floor  and  amidst  silence  as  nearly  abso 
lute  as  an  orator  ever  gets  (Colonel  Roosevelt  was 


MR.  WILSON'S  IDEALS  333 

an  orator  that  night  at  least)  drew  the  final  count  in 
his  indictment  against  Mr.  Wilson. 

"Mr.  Wilson,"  he  began,  "now  dwells  at  Shadow 
Lawn." 

In  the  press  box  one  could  almost  feel  the  house 
pull  itself  together,  sensing  what  was  to  come. 

'There  should  be  shadows  enough  at  Shadow 
Lawn,"  he  went  on,  clipping  off  each  word  cleanly, 
as  was  his  practice.  "The  shadows  of  men,  women, 
and  children  who  have  risen  from  the  ooze  of  the 
ocean  bottom  and  from  graves  in  foreign  land.  The 
shadows  of  the  helpless  whom  Mr.  Wilson  did  not 
dare  protect  lest  he  might  have  to  face  danger;  the 
shadows  of  babies  gasping  pitifully  as  they  sank 
under  the  waves;  the  shadows  of  women  outraged 
and  slain  by  bandits. 

"The  shadows  of  Boyd  and  Adair  and  their  brave 
troopers  who  lay  in  the  Mexican  desert,  the  black 
blood  crusted  around  their  mouths  and  their  dim 
eyes  looking  upward  because  President  Wilson  had 
sent  them  to  do  a  task  and  had  then  shamefully 
abandoned  them  to  the  mercy  of  the  foes  who  know 
no  mercy. 

'  Those  are  the  shadows  proper  for  Shadow  Lawn  ; 
the  shadows  of  deeds  that  were  never  done;  the 
shadows  of  brave  words  that  were  followed  by  no 
action;  the  shadows  of  the  tortured  dead." 


334  TALKS  WITH  T.  R. 

With  his  final  gesture  the  house  was  on  its  feet. 
It  was  storming  the  platform  as  he  reached  toward 
the  exit,  throwing  himself  through  the  group  on  the 
platform  after  the  manner  of  the  expert  in  such  work 
and  in  a  moment  was  on  the  sidewalk  boarding  the 
car  that  was  to  take  him  to  another  meeting  on  the 
East  Side. 

Two  years  later  I  referred  to  this  speech  in  the 
course  of  a  chat,  saying  his  close  was  quite  the  best 
thing  I  had  ever  heard  him  do. 

"Down  front,"  said  I,  "you  could  almost  see  the 
ghosts  rising  at  your  call.'* 

"Yes?"  he  answered  in  query  form.  "Well,  Mr. 
Wilson  is  not  dead  yet.  He  is  a  very  fortunate  man 
if  he  does  not  live  to  be  tortured  by  many,  many 
ghosts." 


THE   END 


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